How Much Direction is the Right Amount?

[Anonymous]

By the way Ray — I think it’s a poor fit with the Church’s skills to be teaching us all how to be skinny. It’s too far out of their mandate. Now on issues like relationships, providing workshops or other professionals to come into an describe ways we can improve is definitely within range.

My concern in posting the concern about the stayLDS article was that the STayLDS article is claiming that the Church helps you overcome obesity, when it does not. That is NOT on the radar of any Church leader in a significant way. So, to include it in the StayLDS article is a misnomer, in my view. And by the way, that last thing I want is more direction from the Church on my eating or exercise habits that are way outside the realm of its committed resources and expertise. My concern was not about lack of obesity prevention training in the Church — my concern was about the STayLDS article claiming that the Church has some kind of great benefit in preventing obesity — it doesn’t, and the fact that so many missionaries come home fat is a testament to that.

[Anonymous]

After reading this and thinking and visiting another board. I have to say, I’d rather see a tatooed pierced mini-skirt wearing goth kid in church than out partying because they didn’t feel welcome in church. Call me crazy but I bet Christ himself would agree. 😮 😯

[Anonymous]

I’ve been unable to check in for a while and don’t have any real time now, but I just want to thank everyone for the comments so far.

SD, the obesity post was the one that prompted me to post this one – but it wasn’t the only inspiration. It’s a feeling I’ve had for a long time – that people generally want to be told how to do those things that they find hard to do, while they don’t want to be told how to do those things that seem unimportant to them. Striking the proper organizational balance is brutal, especially when “govern themselves” just isn’t cutting it or isn’t enough for most people.

For example, someone who can handle being a social drinker might not want the Church to harp on alcohol consumption to the extent that it does – but the abused wife of a mean drunk who joined the Church and quit drinking will go to her grave convinced that God spoke the WofW directly into Joseph’s ear.

I’m out of time, but I enjoyed reading the comments thus far.

[Anonymous]

cwald wrote:

Perhaps more accurate — I DON’T WANT TO LIVE THE LAW anymore. The law, IMO, is a shallow, dead-end spiritual journey.

Nephi agrees with you

http://lds.org/scriptures/bofm/2-ne/25.27?lang=eng#26

And groups in the BOM had this same issue. Some abandoned the law of Moses because they knew that it was a dead law and they figured they were capable of living the higher law. Ultimately, the groups who prematurely abandoned the lower law completely lost sight of Christ and the higher law. They fell into iniquity. Certainly there were individuals capable of living the higher law but as a whole, these groups failed miserably without the tether of what Paul describes as “a schoolmaster”. I don’t know that the basic nature of mankind has changed all that much since then.

Paul taught the NT Christians in Corinth that sometimes we keep the lower law, even when we recognize the deadness of it, so as not to offend those who are not as far along in their spiritual journey. He told these early saints not to eat the meat offered to idols even though they knew full well that meat offerings were not salvific. But take heed lest by any means this liberty of yours become a stumblingblock to them that are weak, he wrote.

There seems to be this delicate balance in how the gospel is taught.

Jude mentions this dualistic approach to teaching and living the gospel also: And of some have compassion, making a difference: And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire;

So, if you’ve moved beyond obedience out of fear of the consequences, and you’ve experienced a change of nature such that the higher law is written in your heart and you are motivated by love, then live the higher law. I’ve found that the higher law usually demands that I generally conform to the lower law simply because I love many people for whom I am consciously trying not to become a stumblingblock.

Well now, that was a wordy way of saying that I agree with you. LOL. I was just explaining how I’ve come to reconcile the overbearing lower law and my desire to live something much higher and much more satisying.

[Anonymous]

Old-Timer wrote:

SD, the obesity post was the one that prompted me to post this one – but it wasn’t the only inspiration. It’s a feeling I’ve had for a long time – that people generally want to be told how to do those things that they find hard to do, while they don’t want to be told how to do those things that seem unimportant to them. Striking the proper organizational balance is brutal, especially when “govern themselves” just isn’t cutting it or isn’t enough for most people.

Not sure…I’m a proponent of creating an affirming environment where everyone feels a part of the community, and then providing SOLID advice that people can assimilate as they wish — and it needs to go beyond pray, read the scriptures, attend Church, obey the commandments and hold a TR. And it needs to respect the diverse perspectives of the target group.

But again, my concern was with the STayLDS article claiming one reason to stay is how the Church encourages a healthy body weight. In my experience, it doesn’t — in fact, it actually encourages obesity, tacitly, if my mission was any indication. So, you won’t find me asking the Church to get into anti-obesity training.

[Anonymous]

I agree with all of that, SD.

My own philosopy is very much the teach and let govern model – but I have to accept lots of failure and messiness in that model, which most people just aren’t willing to do. If our scriptures are to be believed, God accepts that type of failure and messiness – but it’s SO hard for most of us, myself included, truly to accept and honor the type of agency upon which our theology is based when it comes right down to it.

[Anonymous]

I think a big factor in this is the lay clergy that has frequent turnover. Other religions don’t seem to have that dynamic to deal with. when I was called to leadership positions, I felt I needed to magnify my calling, and as I look back now, while some people were grateful for my service and my opinions to help comfort them, many were not comforted. I realize more now that it is so hard to know what others go through in their lives, that blanket answers (while they help some people see a way that teachings can be applied) cannot apply to everyone and all situations.

But I am no longer in leadership positions, so others will have to figure that lesson out themselves. In the mean time, I can be patient while others think they know all even though I know they don’t. But I also have to have my boundaries and stick up for my beliefs, even if they think I’m wrong. I think most of the experienced and good leaders understand this and are more compassionate and tolerant. But like I said, they don’t stay in positions too long, so there is a constant change to provide learning experiences for all of us.

[Anonymous]

You’re right, mercyngrace.

Quote:

Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster. For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. – Galatians 3:24-28

I agree with your opinions on this, and for the most part, this passage of scripture sums it up for me.

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