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Old-Timer wrote:
Normally, I would agree with church and cwald, but I know enough about the overall situation to be wary of that approach in this particular case.
What does this mean?
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Old-Timer wrote:Normally, I would agree with church and cwald, but I know enough about the overall situation to be wary of that approach in this particular case.
I am not sure about this particular case but I know free agency has always been really important in Mormonism.It is difficult to tell two men who are “yes men”, they don’t need “yes men”…I have tried. Don’t forget I am a woman and they “preside” over me. Sally has told the bishopric she is working through some stuff, just needs some time. Their response is love bombing. She been blunt. Sally isn’t the only person this has happened to. Some people really have a hard time being that blunt. One of the ladies this is happening to has a husband who freaks out when has church visitors. She called me, I told her I would report her feelings, but to get rid of the problem, she would really need to talk to the Bishop. He left her alone for a month but they were on the list again this month.
I am trying to “stay” and although I appreciate Church and Cwald opinions (I swear sometimes Cwald and Origami are too similar. He would like to discuss beer)…I am really more in the vibe of Mom3. Beautiful words and thanks for the support Harmony and Roy. It really is a complicated mess and I live in a weird place.
GodisLove wrote:… although I appreciate Church and Cwald opinions (I swear sometimes Cwald and Origami are too similar. He would like to discuss beer)…I am really more in the vibe of Mom3…
Fair enough.
I trust mom3. Good luck.
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As a man I have learned to tell other men to back off but I would maybe have a harder time telling a woman that so I can appreciate your situation and I really feel for you. I feel like women are not listened to as much in the church and this has really distressed me in the last few years and has moved me to come out in favor of the ordain women movement because I think women really need a voice. I have been pretty vocal with my bishop and SP so it might be easier for me. You are doing a great work and I’m sure Sally appreciates it. church0333, I will never argue against free agency, and I am advocating for it in my comments in this thread. 
I have always been a woman who could speak her mind. I am not always heard, but in our church and definitely in the place I live, women come second. I had to get in leadership to see how true this is. So odd to have 3 women in a room with 12 men and feel like this is a representation of half the ward. Crazy. I have never felt that way as a wife and have just assumed that all men wanted to hear my opinion, because the CHI says. I am blunt about things and the previous Bishop knew I would call him on it and at least avoided the confrontation. The new one actually dismisses what I say and it makes me so mad. I can say whatever and he has a blank face and lack of interest, the same thing said by the HC…good point. I am not “entitled” to my agency or to be heard and they truly believe that. That is a whole other thread. I love some of my ward people though and have tried hard to help them in my calling.There are many sad people who just need a friend and some support. Everyone needs this sometimes. Cwald, would you say much has changed since you grew up here?
It is at an end though and I am not prepared emotionally or spiritually for the shiz storm it may bring to just tell them to pound it an walk off. As stupid as this sounds, I hate them to win too. Complete jerks.
Mom3 your response was very touching and insightful. God is Love is a remarkable woman. Thanks to all for the support you have been for my wife. She and I have both benefited from this board. My first response when these things happen is generally much harsher and probably wrong and would be considered felony assault in most states. I suppose it is a good thing that I haven’t been in Ward Council for a while now. It is nice to hear from people that don’t think we are the crazy ones.
I think if anything has changed…it’s for the worst. The church in that area has become more conservative, authoritarian, pharisaical, and exclusive…hunkered down in a defensive persecution complex. Sorry.
That is my opinion.
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That is what I thought you would say. I keep running into people from my ward that you have to know from (another town), or at least their families and wonder what they were like 25 years ago. They seem to have married into the pharisaical families from here and are breeding more…………… I think it is crazier in that stake, but I can’t prove that. Just my observation from some stake meetings. Every time I see your relation, I see your avatar.
Those are all adjectives Origami uses, and sadly very true in too many instances. I am trying to see the positive and it has been tough lately.
GodisLove wrote:I don’t feel guilt anymore though. I let that go a few years ago.
I am just trying to stay myself in the ward. I keep telling myself that surely this is what “the church” wants, right? People being themselves IN a ward, instead of being driven or drifting out.
Yes, that is what the current top leadership wants. In the words of the great and wise cwald, if the membership (especially local leaders) would follow their prophets . . .
:thumbup: Quote:It’s what the current top leadership wants
In support of Ray’s and cwald’s observations, the top leadership has been asking for it for awhile.
One of the two Stake Presidents during the 18 year experience, became a friend of mine, and he taught me some important lessons. The most important being – we are all horribly mortal. As a leader – the word Tyrant was often used to describe the SP style. And lots of souls got caught in his swords all the time. When he was called, James E. Faust, was the presiding GA. During Stake Conference, in front of all of the families in attendance – Elder Faust – explained to the congregation the instruction he gave the new SP as he left to pray about his councilors. The instruction was to find two people who would balance the new SP out. The SP had complied, but the two men quickly moved to parts unknown six months after serving.
During that time I had moved into ward leadership, and made a smart-alic, comment during a ward conference correlation meeting. The SP liked it, in fact it became the running joke for months. It blew everyone away. This was a man that didn’t laugh ever. It wasn’t that I was trying to do anything, it was me just being me, and it worked. His and my relationship grew and I found myself in stake callings. His style was no different, the people’s pain was still the same, but every person who could reach out from the SP, and love the members, did so. It wasn’t easy, it was a tight rope walk. And gave enough ulcers to fill a hospital I am certain.
As my final stake calling came to a close, he and I had a chat. We were just hanging out, it wasn’t a formal moment and he told me one other story of the day he was sustained as SP. Sitting there next to Elder Faust, as the various wives and councilors were speaking, testimony giving, etc. Elder Faust wrote a quick note on a scrap of paper and passed it to the SP – it read, “Smile More”. The SP showed me the note. He’d kept it in his drawer. I then understood why my single comment had been a long standing joke, it helped him do what was not in his nature.
The request is being made, it’s just harder for many than we think.
Sometimes the greatest saviors we have are each other and we don’t even know it.
GodisLove, we could be in the same ward…with the same position…with the same dilemma! I was in a leadership role not long ago…
I was also in a room with 12 men each Sunday, but I was asked for my thoughts quite a bit…and I gave them.
The whole “rescue” thing bothers me. We can’t “save” anyone who doesn’t want to be saved. That was my mantra for several years while in leadership roles.
Now that I’m out, I JUST got a call from our bishop…
Him: The missionaries want to reteach Sister A. Can you see if she is up for it by inviting her over for FHE so she can see how an LDS family could be?
Me: I am not interested in being covert, but I’d be happy to just ask her. I suspect, though, that she will be much happier if we stop talking about church with her and just be her friend. I genuinely like her and want to keep my friendship with her.
Him: Well, don’t ask it bluntly. Perhaps invite her over for FHE to be with your family?
Me: She appreciates candor. I’ll see what I can do.
And that’s where I left it. I have no idea what to do…she knows how the church operates, she knows why members make visits and she just wants to be left alone.
So, I’m interested in hearing what you decide to do with Sally. I may need to copy your idea.
Thanks for sharing that story, mom3. It is wonderful – and it reminded me of why I loved Elder Faust so much.
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