How to overcome temple anxiety?

[Anonymous]

Quote:

“I feel bad and don’t want him to have to be the guy with the apostate wife.”

I see. You haven’t yet hit menopause. I predict that at some point you’re going to quit caring about this. You can only do things for indirect reasons for so long. Eventually, they have to matter to you personally, or you quit doing them. That’s been my experience anyway.

[Anonymous]

On Own Now wrote:

Unfortunately, the Church, its scriptures, and the Temple imply strongly that it’s all literal. Life and our experience here is so much more… uh… squishy… than that. The Church’s heavy reliance on literalism makes it difficult for people like you and me who have experiences and viewpoints that don’t fit a specific mold… and easy for those who fit the specific mold more readily. So literlistic thinking reinforces the one group and marginalizes the other. It’s not done on purpose, but it’s the natural outcome of the setup.

So, don’t feel bad that you’ve been taught to think of things so literally, and don’t feel less-than, because you don’t feel comfortable with that literal interpretation.

This is really well said. :thumbup:

It is what causes cog dis for many…the experience in life is drawing our spirits to see things beyond literal interpretations, and yet…we’re not really getting instruction and teaching from the organization to seek that more symbolic and less literal perspective. I mean…it is there…but seems to be emphasized to be so literal and true and one way. It seems to make the “squishy” and symbolic look “less than” in terms of faithful and devoted. That can sometimes make us feel “less than”.

Yet…there is so much truth to be found in the mystical, mythical, symbolic and orthopraxy. It just feels like that decision to view it that way is a personal one, not reinforced or affirmed by the institution.

At some point, that becomes an acceptable position. Especially, as HG says, when you dont’ care about some things anymore.

Everything can be brought back to love and binding families by love and eternal hope of love and serving and having hope for heaven…the good things it all points towards…even if the details are just insignificant tenets of how somebody in leadership once attempted to capture those other-wordly concepts.

[Anonymous]

kate5 wrote:

Stress is the main feeling I get when I attend.

Well, modifying your temple clothing to add a pocket for a hip flask of Glenlivet 21 year probably wouldn’t go over well, so you’d have to come up with something more subtle.

[Anonymous]

mom3, It’s funny because I have never really thought to just meditate and tune it all out before. All I hear is that you should concentrate on everything that is being said and don’t daydream, etc. But the advice given here today seems to say the opposite. I am going to give it a try. I think trying to concentrate on God will maybe bring me the peace I am looking for while I am there. I also am petrified of being a witness couple. It makes a stressful situation worse. I think I am going to tell my husband before I go in that I’m not doing it if they ask. I’m drawing the line on that. Or maybe, I’ll follow your lead and just hide in the dressing room. 🙂

Thanks for the validation On Own Now. I’ve been thinking about this a lot lately. Why do some people thrive in the orthodox LDS environment? They become amazing people doing great things, while I am reduced to a shriveling mess. I’m beginning to think that people like me just get weeded out. Pretty soon all that is left are those that excel in that literal type of environment. They are the ones who make the church look good and are welcome. People like me are just a burden, so they only thing they know how to do is to try to change me into one of them. They honestly think that because their way of life works for them, it should just make me bursting with joy and happiness also. If not, well then it’s going to be a struggle my whole life trying to stay in. Because, I’m not really seeing any sign of major change. All, I hear is “just listen to us, we know what is best for you.”

Hawkgrrrl, haha! You are right, I haven’t. That statement probably seemed shallow. The truth is, I don’t want him to feel less-than around other people. But I also know that, by far, the main reason he wants me to go to the temple with him is because he feels that it is what God wants of us and what we are supposed to do to live together in eternity. That’s a pretty major disappointment for him to have to deal with if I stop going. As far as my reason for doing this, yes I am doing it to make him happy but I guess in someway I feel like I am doing it for God. I can be a pretty selfish person and I know that doing something kind for my husband would maybe be pleasing to God. So I guess in that way, I do feel like I am doing it for Him also. Does He care if I go to the temple? I haven’t figured that out yet but I do think he would be happy that I am sacrificing something in order to make my marriage better. I am going to play it by ear, though, I can’t go to that dark place that I was before. Maybe taking the suggestions of all of you and mixing it up a little by doing different ordinances every time and not focusing on what actually is going on will make it a little easier.

[Anonymous]

Quote:

NIght SG Well, modifying your temple clothing to add a pocket for a hip flask of Glenlivet 21 year probably wouldn’t go over well, so you’d have to come up with something more subtle.

Just when I though the advice here couldn’t get any better 😆

You guys are giving me all sorts of good solutions to think about.

[Anonymous]

Many orthodox members would be the first to point out how everything about the temple relates to symbolism. Maybe the difference comes from what we do with the symbols?

I think the orthodox LDS view places most of the value of symbolism in how they teach people about literal things (e.g. imagery of the sun, the moon, and stars are symbols of a very literal celestial, terrestrial, and telestial kingdom). There’s also official interpretations for many symbols. Often we look for symbols in the temple that are related to the doctrines or symbols that tie back to a specific person or event.

What happens when you forget everything you know, forget relying on someone else’s interpretation of a symbol, and begin to explore your own meanings? Some symbols can be shorthand for expressing deep concepts. Other symbols can be used to inspire the imagination, something with no official answer that helps your mind wander.

It can also be useful to create your own symbols. After all, that’s what we’ve done with temples. We’ve purposely injected symbolism into the experience to remind people of specific doctrines, specific concepts, specific people, specific events, etc. so it’s going to be a challenge to push thought all that. Still, I find value in creating my own meaning.

I do admit that the last time I did an endowment session I was keeping an internal Mystery Science Theater 3000 dialogue going in my head the whole time. It helped and I came up with some nice zingers… that I couldn’t share with anyone. Shrugs.

kate5 wrote:

Thanks for the validation On Own Now. I’ve been thinking about this a lot lately. Why do some people thrive in the orthodox LDS environment? They become amazing people doing great things, while I am reduced to a shriveling mess. I’m beginning to think that people like me just get weeded out. Pretty soon all that is left are those that excel in that literal type of environment. They are the ones who make the church look good and are welcome. People like me are just a burden, so they only thing they know how to do is to try to change me into one of them. They honestly think that because their way of life works for them, it should just make me bursting with joy and happiness also. If not, well then it’s going to be a struggle my whole life trying to stay in. Because, I’m not really seeing any sign of major change. All, I hear is “just listen to us, we know what is best for you.”

I have this mental image of a polar bear in the arctic asking a shivering komodo dragon, “What’s your big problem?”

We’re all unique and I do feel the church has a culture of conformity. It can happen when people feel they have The Answer to all life’s questions. If you have The Answer, any departure from it would be wrong. Some people need that certainty, I know at one point in time I most certainly did. Certainty can bring comfort to a certain personality type and it can make a different personality type uncomfortable, like a cold blooded animal in the arctic.

I don’t think that you’re a burden to the church. You’re an asset. A valuable and rare asset. I know how it feels though. The thing is… we measure ourselves against one another. Hey, it happens. It’s hard when you’re different in a dominant culture because so often “success” is measured by how well you stack up against the traditional measures of success as defined by the culture. That doesn’t make you a failure though, it just means you’re successful in ways that go unnoticed and in ways that are often underappreciated.

[Anonymous]

I forgot to add… if temple attendance was eating me up inside I’d definitely talk to DW about it. It might not be the easiest of conversations to have but it might beat the alternative of living up to an expectation that only makes you miserable.

[Anonymous]

Quote:

the main reason he wants me to go to the temple with him is because he feels that it is what God wants of us and what we are supposed to do to live together in eternit

I grew up in a TBM family with a dad who see’s the temple just as your husband does. All the years I grew up, Mom only attended temple nights a couple of times. Dad went faithfully. She served her other callings diligently, did abundant compassionate service. Temple was his thing. Not hers. She serves with him now but never goes extra. Can you and he do that together. It’s honest, church connected, and peaceful?

Just a thought – No purchase required.

[Anonymous]

Nibbler, thank you for your kind words. I guess I just might need to chill out a little bit. I get in these “poor me” modes when I probably just need to not take everything so seriously. That would probably help make the temple more enjoyable, although I’m probably not as creative at you. 🙂 I bet it would also help with church culture, rules and many other things that I get so wound up about. I don’t want to open up a can of worms with my husband unless it’s absolutely necessary but I will talk to him if it I just can’t make it work and stay sane.

Mom3, thanks for telling me about your parents experience. Around here it seems they put a lot of emphasis on husbands and wives going together often so that is part of where the pressure for me to go is coming from. I am going to try the ideas I have gotten from this great forum and if I just can’t do it maybe I can compromise on going once or twice a year. Or maybe once or twice every five years. At this point, I just hope I can keep going to church.

[Anonymous]

Quote:

I have never felt comfort or God’s presence in the temple. Even when I was at my most believing state, I just did it because it is portrayed as one if not THE most important aspect of our church. Stress is the main feeling I get when I attend.

Does it help to assume that there are probably not a few people in the temple who feel the same way? Along with everything else “sacred, not secret” that never gets discussed, there’s also our true feelings and experience there. It’s nice to have a place like this for honesty.

Part of what makes the temple difficult for me is that when you stop believing the ceremonies came directly from the mind of God, or that they’re required, or that they describe a woman’s true relationship to God, or that a family needs a sealing to be a family hereafter, etc., there isn’t much left to think about. I don’t have a very disciplined mind inclined toward meditation. When I’m left in a place with no music, no written word, not much in the way of architectural interest, no windows – it’s hard in such a vacuum for me to really settle in to deep thoughts. And then I do feel guilty. I know I should be contemplating the arc of my eternal existence, but my eyes wander around and sometimes I end up thinking that everything I see came out of a catalog and how much the chairs in the upper chapel look like the ones at my grandma’s table. Then I try to remember that in the early temples, people probably were bringing in their grandma’s best chairs to be used in the temple. Along with potted plants for Eden scenery and what not. As hard as we’ve always tried, maybe there never really has been a way to be completely transported by the experience. And maybe that’s important, to always have an awareness that it’s not real.

[Anonymous]

Ann, I hope you don’t mind if I dissect your post.

Ann wrote:

Part of what makes the temple difficult for me is that when you stop believing the ceremonies came directly from the mind of God, or that they’re required, or that they describe a woman’s true relationship to God, or that a family needs a sealing to be a family hereafter, etc., there isn’t much left to think about.

When you stop believing those things… isn’t that when the thinking begins?

I think one thing the temple teaches (indirectly) is that people tend to take existing things to make new, better things to suit their evolving needs (or maybe wants). I hear the new Samsung Note 7 phones are blowing up on twitter. :angel: It does get a little tricky because we’ve evolved spiritually in the last 150+ years but much of the temple experience is on lock down. We don’t update the lesson to teach what we’ve learned about a woman’s true relationship with god. Maybe it’s another way of teaching us the importance of taking existing things and making them better by showing the consequences of what happens when you don’t do it? I don’t know.

Ann wrote:

I don’t have a very disciplined mind inclined toward meditation. When I’m left in a place with no music, no written word, not much in the way of architectural interest, no windows – it’s hard in such a vacuum for me to really settle in to deep thoughts.

I don’t think that our temples are geared toward meditation. My local temple feels more inspired by Ford’s assembly line than a place I’d go to meditate. I concede that it might be more a reflection of what reverence I give the temple than anything to do with the temple itself but there is this element of once you’re in the temple there’s a job to do. “Job to do” currently describes my worldly experience, something I like to get away from when I try to meditate. I get it though, from a certain perspective people need ordinances so temples take on a more utilitarian role. There’s also the notion that some people are better able to feel a connection with deity when they are actively doing a job.

I lament that in the smaller temples there are no quiet corners to hide in. That’s what I need out of my temple experience, quiet corners. The good news is that I’ve found lots of personal temples all over my community.

Ann wrote:

And then I do feel guilty. I know I should be contemplating the arc of my eternal existence, but my eyes wander around and sometimes I end up thinking that everything I see came out of a catalog and how much the chairs in the upper chapel look like the ones at my grandma’s table. Then I try to remember that in the early temples, people probably were bringing in their grandma’s best chairs to be used in the temple. Along with potted plants for Eden scenery and what not. As hard as we’ve always tried, maybe there never really has been a way to be completely transported by the experience. And maybe that’s important, to always have an awareness that it’s not real.

I’ve mentioned this before. Back in the day (golden age fallacy :thumbup: ) people sacrificed for their temples. We do to, in other ways, but I think theirs was more personal. When it’s your grandma’s best chair in the temple it makes the experience more personal. When you worked long hours to shingle the roof in the summer heat it makes the experience more personal. Your blood, sweat, and hopes are in the building, there’s also a sense of “we did this.” Now, once your numbers are up and you win the new temple lottery a temple poofs into existence, almost overnight. “We had the numbers and some luck.” doesn’t feel as personal as “We had trouble getting the plaster to stick and they figured out that cow hair made it hold together… and they used cow hair from my uncle’s farm.” or “They used our chairs in the west sealing room, we had to sit on the floor for two months until we could afford to replace them.”

All that said, I didn’t make any personal sacrifices to create the places that are currently sacred to me (I’m a meditation mooch) but I can choose the places myself… they’re personal in that way.

[Anonymous]

kate5, Thanks for starting this topic. And thanks for all the thoughtful replies from everyone.

I also have a really hard time with going to the temple. In fact, my own endowment was the start of my 30+ year faith crisis. I’ve never enjoyed the temple experience, but my wife loves the temple. I’ve really tried to learn to enjoy it or at least tolerate it, but it just causes too much anxiety and stress and I really resent going. I am much better off emotionally when I don’t go. I actually experience PTSD-like symptoms when I do endowments, or even think about it.

For many years of my marriage, my wife and I would attend the temple regularly. Lots of “date nights” at the temple. She really enjoyed this, but I didn’t. Within the last couple years, I opened up to her about how I feel about the temple, and we haven’t been together for over a year, except for a wedding or two. I really want her to go, but she doesn’t want to go without me. To her, I think going alone just emphasizes the fact that we are not on the same page, and so she avoids going on her own too.

How can I help support her (and help fulfill her spiritual needs) without her feeling like we are far apart spiritually? Any ideas?

[Anonymous]

nibbler wrote:

we’ve evolved spiritually in the last 150+ years but much of the temple experience is on lock down.

To me…this is a major point of the anxiety problem…especially when we care so much about what we’ve been taught and want to believe these things are the same today as they were thousands of years ago and as they will be forever…and yet…things evolve in our lives that make us try so hard to make it all fit together. It is a paradox. It is truth, and yet it doesn’t seem to make sense in our personal experience in life. And if it doesn’t seem to…it must be us that the problem lies with because it couldn’t a problem with a male prophet from the 1840s. Could it?

We cling so hard to the iron rod. We think that is what God wants us to prove we can do. It is what others cheer us on doing.

There are so many mixed metaphors and teaching tools where context has been changed around…it is difficult to know what to conform to…and what to let go and open your mind to new ideas and if that is allowed.

One thing to remember through it all…anxiety is not always a bad thing, if it is kept in check and not allowed to get to unhealthy limits. When opposition is needed in all things…even anxiety can be part of the temple and the church. We can overcome it and find the opposite of that which makes it a reward. There can be growth by recognizing anxiety is there. My anxiety is not someone else’s anxiety. In the quiet rooms of the temple…we can ponder why that is…what we want to learn from that…what we want to do…and listen for inspiration. That can also be done in the mountains or in the woods or other holy places on earth.

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