How to reconcile agency with mental illness

[Anonymous]

Have you been reading about a feeling called “elevation”?

[Anonymous]

Reuben wrote:

Have you been reading about a feeling called “elevation”?

Oh yes… that… gets blamed for every religious experience going which is not quite true but anyway. (Excluding temporal lobe epilepsy which is the catch-all for visions, alien abductions etc but which isn’t a perfect fit either.)

[Anonymous]

Reuben wrote:

Have you been reading about a feeling called “elevation”?

Haha, no! I’ve been reading about norepinephrine levels, thalamic activation, etc., in practices like meditation. Is “elevation” the same as what we call “feeling the Spirit”?

[Anonymous]

squarepeg wrote:

Reuben wrote:

Have you been reading about a feeling called “elevation”?

Haha, no! I’ve been reading about norepinephrine levels, thalamic activation, etc., in practices like meditation. Is “elevation” the same as what we call “feeling the Spirit”?

It accounts for some instances but to say it accounts for all of them is nonsense.

As I have stated elsewhere, Mormons rope so many things into bolstering their testimony that they confuse general positive emotions that everyone gets with spiritual experiences… especially if they have been born into the church.

[Anonymous]

SamBee wrote:

squarepeg wrote:

Reuben wrote:

Have you been reading about a feeling called “elevation”?

Haha, no! I’ve been reading about norepinephrine levels, thalamic activation, etc., in practices like meditation. Is “elevation” the same as what we call “feeling the Spirit”?

It accounts for some instances but to say it accounts for all of them is nonsense.

As I have stated elsewhere, Mormons rope so many things into bolstering their testimony that they confuse general positive emotions that everyone gets with spiritual experiences… especially if they have been born into the church.

I agree. This is what finally caused my sister to lose faith: she realized that she had felt those same positive emotions while watching Disney movies.

“Elevation” is the best match for “burning in the bosom.”

[Anonymous]

I think you completely misunderstood me there. Just as Mormons rope it everything into spiritual experience, skeptics rope elevation into every spiritual experience.

Elevation does not represent all spiritual experiences as some neat catch-all. I’ve experienced elevation and it is quite different to some of what is described in certain spiritual experiences. Also why have I only experienced certain things in certain contexts?

(Sorry to be miserable but Disney movies usually make me want to be sick rather than spiritually uplifted – I consider most of them uninspired commercial trash with one or two exceptions.)

Besides which there is whole theological argument here over the interface between the spiritual and physical. If the spiritual realm does actually exist, then it can affect the physical and vice versa. I view it much in the sense of being an additional dimension – I think most of the time humans are unaware that there are other facets of our existence and our understanding of time and space are limited by our own perception.

[Anonymous]

Thanks for the clarification on “elevation”. I think I understand it a tiny bit better, now…maybe.

Reuben wrote:

I agree. This is what finally caused my sister to lose faith: she realized that she had felt those same positive emotions while watching Disney movies.

That’s interesting. I always feel “the spirit” during that part on “Finding Nemo” where all the fish are caught in a net and being hauled up, and Nemo gets them all to swim downwards, and because they all stop panicking and work together toward their common goal, they save themselves. I felt “the Spirit” when I was 15 and read C.S. Lewis’ space trilogy, and at the time, because I was raised in the Church, I interpreted that to mean that creatures really did live below the surface of Venus, lol. But, see, I don’t think that feeling the Spirit in contexts not church-related falsifies the supposition that the “Spirit” exists. The “Spirit” can still exist, and perhaps simply manifests when we’re exposed to beauty, or truth, or any noble virtue. In the “Finding Nemo” example, we could say that the Spirit bore witness of the power of focus and teamwork. But I think it might be helpful for Church members to realize that when the feel the Spirit, it might be witnessing of the truthfulness of a principle behind the story, rather than the historical accuracy of the story itself. When I watch that part of “Nemo” and feel that feeling, it doesn’t mean that at some point, real fish were actually engaged in that activity. Likewise, I believe that when I feel the Spirit while reading scripture, it doesn’t necessarily mean that that event actually took place; but just that the principle behind the story is beautiful or morally right. I grant that the story may have taken place; I just no longer gauge the historical accuracy of a document by whether I feel the Spirit while I’m reading it. My bishop gives some good counsel about this: He says that when we feel the Spirit we should ask ourselves of what principle or assumption it is bearing witness.

SamBee wrote:

Besides which there is whole theological argument here over the interface between the spiritual and physical. If the spiritual realm does actually exist, then it can affect the physical and vice versa. I view it much in the sense of being an additional dimension – I think most of the time humans are unaware that there are other facets of our existence and our understanding of time and space are limited by our own perception.

I love thinking of the spiritual realm as a different dimension. I think it’s totally plausible. 🙂

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