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DarkJedi wrote:
FWIW, I honestly don’t think anyone outside the church gives a hoot about what RMN has to say any more than most members care what the pope has to say.
Maybe not RMN himself, but it is not a bad idea. I have noticed it has been getting some positive feedback from non-members on Facebook when it refers to non-church matters (although as I say elsewhere I don’t agree with one or two of the choices).
I have in the past told missionaries in very clear terms that I would not be participating in any programs or referring anyone to them in the near future because there was no one to refer – no new people I have met, etc. I have also used the the idea that everyone I know who isn’t a member knows I’m a member and if they want to ask the questions I answer and I try to lead a life that makes it clear I am Christian. But like here in the written word, in real life in the spoken word I can come off a bit more gruff than I mean to be. That’s really where I’m coming from here. But again, I think I’m off the hook for the moment unless the missionaries intend to push the hashtag give thanks thing to which I have an easy out – I don’t have any social media. So they didn’t give up, they called again today and left a message. They didn’t have enough to do here pre-COVID so it’s just worse now. I get that and know they’re bored. So i am composing a text response explaining how busy i am, how I have limited social interaction especially with non members and Old-Timer’s “I don’t do programs.”
DarkJedi wrote:I don’t really have many issues with doctrine per se (at least what I consider doctrine) my issues are more with church culture and policy…. “There are some cultural aspects of the church that trouble me and I disagree with some policies, such as the treatment of LGBTQ people.”
I didn’t realize that was the case for you, Jedi. That’s exactly how I feel. The culture and the politics just drive me stark raving mad. On the other hand, I’m pretty much on board with all of the doctrines.
Katzpur wrote:
DarkJedi wrote:I don’t really have many issues with doctrine per se (at least what I consider doctrine) my issues are more with church culture and policy…. “There are some cultural aspects of the church that trouble me and I disagree with some policies, such as the treatment of LGBTQ people.”
I didn’t realize that was the case for you, Jedi. That’s exactly how I feel. The culture and the politics just drive me stark raving mad. On the other hand, I’m pretty much on board with all of the doctrines.
Oh, dear, maybe I’m not communicating as well as I thought I was!
😳 I did not end up saying that in my text to the missionaries. I left it with I’m very busy including a long daily commute, I have little social interaction exacerbated by the pandemic, I don’t like programs or projects, and I am severely limited at work. But I told them I’m happy to talk them about other things, all they have to do is make an appointment (dropping the hint that I’m not going to drop everything and answer their calls).
DarkJedi wrote:Oh, dear, maybe I’m not communicating as well as I thought I was!
😳 I did not end up saying that in my text to the missionaries.
No, I totally got that. There was no misunderstanding as to what you actually said.
I just didn’t know you felt that way. I figured most posters on StayLDS were here because of disagreements with actual doctrine. Since I’m mostly in agreement with the doctrine and just find the policies and culture to be annoying, I found it nice to hear that I’m not alone in that.
Katzpur wrote:
DarkJedi wrote:Oh, dear, maybe I’m not communicating as well as I thought I was!
😳 I did not end up saying that in my text to the missionaries.
No, I totally got that. There was no misunderstanding as to what you actually said.
I just didn’t know you felt that way. I figured most posters on StayLDS were here because of disagreements with actual doctrine. Since I’m mostly in agreement with the doctrine and just find the policies and culture to be annoying, I found it nice to hear that I’m not alone in that.
We are definitely not alone, there are others here that have the same issue. Usually people have more than one issue, and that’s true of me as well. The culture and dogma are a biggie for me though. At one time I may have said I had issues with doctrine but that would have been before I had a good understanding of what doctrine means to me and what I believe to be doctrine (and don’t believe to be doctrine). I had used a policy (LGBTQ+) in this example, but I do not believe polygamy to be doctrine (or of God at all) but more of a past culture that some people can’t let go of and thus make it appear as though it’s doctrine. They may (probably do) believe it is doctrine but that doesn’t mean I have to not does it mean I have to disrespect them for so believing. That’s one of the wonderful things about this place – we have such a diversity of thought.
Katzpur wrote:
[…]I just didn’t know you felt that way. I figured most posters on StayLDS were here because of disagreements with actual doctrine. Since I’m mostly in agreement with the doctrine and just find the policies and culture to be annoying, I found it nice to hear that I’m not alone in that.
DarkJedi wrote:
We are definitely not alone, there are others here that have the same issue. Usually people have more than one issue, and that’s true of me as well. The culture and dogma are a biggie for me though. At one time I may have said I had issues with doctrine but that would have been before I had a good understanding of what doctrine means to me and what I believe to be doctrine (and don’t believe to be doctrine). […]
This risks going off topic from the OP (it might warrant a new thread), but you’re defiantly not alone! My issues are also mostly with the culture, policy, and procedures. For myself I’m going back to the basics to rebuild my testimony so that I can stand by myself no matter which way the policies go. I’m beginning by studying scripture less as a historical text and instead focusing on the lessons to be learned.Back on topic, I’ve been lucky not to have had many encounters with the missionaries. We fed a trio of sisters last year and they were polite, they weren’t pushy at all, and even played a quick board game with my kids. It was my own mission that initially unsettled my confidence in church policy/procedure so I haven’t sought out opportunities to interact with the missionaries. Luckily I live in a very active LDS area in Utah so the missionaries are spread out and cover multiple wards.
The bit of doctrine I have the strongest disagreement with is now history, i.e. the priesthood ban. I would like them to change a lot of stuff on the gender and sexuality front (although not going into woke territory) In the past we had missionaries come over to “practice” giving the discussions. This we were willing to do and we gave some mild feedback (for example, I was really surprised that they no longer use flipcharts and expressed a need for visual aids).
The missionaries stopped coming over when the pandemic hit and they have since changed over.
The new missionaries have recently reached out by text to ask if they could come over. I responded back by asking what would be the purpose of their visit. They replied that they want to get to know our family. This does not seem like a legitimate reason to me. I think in non-covid times we would have no issue but this is not those times.
I told the missionaries that we are being very careful with our contacts. We can work something out if there is a specific purpose but we cannot do social visits at this time.
I did send a text a week ago wherein I reiterated that I’m very busy (long commute), I’m up early and in bed early, and I don’t have much of a social life even before COVID. I also said I don’t do programs and don’t have social media but I preach the gospel by trying to be a good example of a Christian. I ended with a note I’d be happy to talk to them phone or video but they need to make an appointment and I don’t want to waste their time or mine. I probably sounded harsher than I wanted but it is what it is and so far they have not attempted further contact. I’m a bit shocked that anyone might be proposing physical, inside-the-home visits. We’re outside a metro area and have lower covid numbers. It’s also an area with a fair amount of anti-mask sentiment and covid denialisim. Even here, no one proposes inside the home visits. Visits are either distancing outdoors or more often over zoom.
NoahVail wrote:
I’m a bit shocked that anyone might be proposing physical, inside-the-home visits.We’re outside a metro area and have lower covid numbers. It’s also an area with a fair amount of anti-mask sentiment and covid denialisim. Even here, no one proposes inside the home visits. Visits are either distancing outdoors or more often over zoom.
I don’t think they were at this time, I think they are not allowed to come inside homes right now. Apparently in other areas they are judging by posts in the thread. So I think it would have been phone or video at most but it’s good to cover my bases just in case. Last time I was at church they followed a couple people out and “caught” them in the parking lot, which is also not kosher with me for personal distancing reasons.
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