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Limhah wrote:
That a forced abstinence was not making us free but we should be under bondage with a yoke upon our necks.
I think that is wisdom, not making things “I must do” and more focus on “I’m willing to”, less guilt and fear and more appreciation for the Love of God in our lives.
Maybe, the way I see it, no one’s forcing me to do it, I want to do it, and moreover, I’m not bullying anyone else into it… although I am trying to help a friend stop drinking, but that’s another matter. SamBee wrote:Maybe, the way I see it, no one’s forcing me to do it, I want to do it, and moreover, I’m not bullying anyone else into it… although I am trying to help a friend stop drinking, but that’s another matter.
I don’t see it that way. We certainly have different experience in this regard – perhaps this is where the BIC/mormon family/Deseret vs convert comes into play. I have no health or addiction issues with the WofW..NONE. I don’t see obeying the WofW as an act of charity. I’ve seen absolutely no ill effect of my not following the WofW. None whatsoever. YET, I do feel like the church is trying to force me to obey WofW. If I want to be part of “the culture” I have to obey. If I want to be active member of the tribe I have to obey. Oh sure, I don’t HAVE to do it, no one is putting a gun to my head, but the social and peer pressure and the guilt that is applied is almost criminal — if I want to remain a member in good standing, I have to obey this silly law of man. Does that make sense? Also, I’m in a struggling branch, and they need me. Im okay with that, and I’m willing to serve, I want to serve, but than I’m told in order to SERVE, I have to have a TR, which means I HAVE to obey the WofW. There is nobody else to do the work. I have (according the church standards) to have a TR. I don’t have the option of just walking away from it all. There is too many people who depend on me.
I think the brethern in 1841 kind of have it right to begin…dont force people to do these things. Teach them correct principles and let them govern themselves. A little bit of wisdom, logic and spiritual guidance can go a long way. Where did it all go wrong?
👿 Quote:Where did it all go wrong?
Maybe when conspiring men started to market directly to children – or when alcohol and tobacco became multi-billion dollar businesses – or when cars were invented – or when date rape pills became readily available – etc.
Look, I’m not saying we all have to agree on this issue. That would be naive and stupid, imo. However, we really do live in a different world than 1841, so I also think it’s simplistic to say that our attitude toward those addictive substances should be the exact same as the common attitude back then. We insist that Paul’s cultural standards don’t apply to us today – that they can’t continue exactly into our day, so why should we insist that Joseph’s should apply exactly to us today? I’m not talking about all members; I’m talking about US here in this forum.
Either these things can change or they can’t – and I prefer that they be able to change. Again, I’m not saying the current application is perfect simply because it’s different – not at all. I just don’t accept the logic that it has to remain the same as it used to be – especially on a forum where we all hope lots of things change over time.
Old-Timer wrote:…I just don’t accept the logic that it has to remain the same as it used to be – especially on a forum where we all hope lots of things change over time.
Touche’.
SamBee wrote:I don’t know what to make of that quote really…
I do.
😈 There are many more of them. That isn’t the point of this thread though. Which reminds me exactly how explosive and polarizing this topic is in the Church, and among the disaffected. WofW practice *IS* so integral to our Mormon identity that few other topics raise this level of passion.
The simple fact exists though that Mormons DID NOT practice or believe in the Word of Wisdom the way we do today. Prior to Heber J. Grant (abstinence as a rule for temple recommends) and Harold B. Lee (correlation), it was a different world. Would we trade for polygamy again as a key identifier?
😈 No. That was why the transition happened. We couldn’t, as a Church, stay there anymore. Lots of changes happened in the 1930’s-1940’s.So what are we left to do with this? I propose we are left to decide on two basic paths. These are both paths, and it is our decision:
1. Compliance with current standards. This does, absolutely, create the least problems for people who want to socially stay fully integrated in the Church. There is nothing wrong with this at all. Seriously. A person can live a whole and fulfilling life without the “wicked” 4 substances.
2. Come up with alternative standards, but these will be highly personal based on individual experience. You can “reconcile” this way. This is how I do it. But it is not the easy path for someone who wants to stay. It may be what you need to feel authentic enough to your journey though. I personally don’t have many (if any) direct family pressures to comply. I would seriously consider differently if my spouse was more orthodox.
I’m always surprised when WoW discussions turn so rancorous. I once assumed that observing the WoW was a given, or at any rate a tangential point. From a sociological perspective (re: Jan Shipps) I think the change in strict observance of the WoW came along with the “Great Accomodation” of the church to mainstream culture in the early 20th century. Having surrendered its temporal and political claims, the body of members lost an important socializing influence and needed to find a substitute for it. Increasing emphasis on things like the WoW and temple attendance are two large parts of that shift in emphasis.
I found it equally surprising that some present-day fundamental Mormon groups, who otherwise are very strict about observing unchanged gospel principles, do not place such a high importance in observing the WoW at least in terms of tea and coffee (they still shun tobacco, afaik.)
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