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I need some help here. My wife thinks we should talk to our children (ages 9, 7, 5, and 2) about my faith transition and let them know dad is working on his faith and doesn’t believe all the things mom does or that he believes some things differently. She doesn’t want to go into specifics, but wants them to understand so if they see dad doing something different than what mom would do, they’re not confused. Also, given the possibility that I might not be able to baptize my son when he turns 8, we want them to have some understanding as to why. So, I am at somewhat of a loss as to how to approach this. Any advice? Also, is this a topic that has been covered in other threads? If so, please link because I could not find any threads about this topic.
Any help would be appreciated.
My experience: http://forum.staylds.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=8260 Honestly (but not comprehensively) and simply (avoiding deep, detailed discusssions that are neither age-appropriate nor necessary). Read the thread where the following comment is embedded – then read the threads linked in the comment:
http://forum.staylds.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=5271&p=72756&hilit=Tell+my+kids#p72385 If you feel the family needs those discussions, I’d have them at a high level and see how they react to know if it is a big deal or not and not overdose them from an adult viewpoint. I would recommend first getting on the same page as parents before talking to the kids.
It doesn’t seem like the discussion is “dad has different views” but “everyone has their own thinking and faith, even mom and dad, and that is ok.”
IOW, I don’t think it is fair to you to present it to the kids as something is different about you than the normal, and mom is normal and assumed to be the correct one. As if believing in church literally is the logical norm, and everything else is “less than” or “wrong but we tolerate it.”
Start from equal ground, and give your kids good examples of how we embrace diversity in life, like the kids at school that believe different, or look different, or have different family situations like divorce or SSM or conservatives vs progressives, or other things.
Dad is not the one doing it differently. You’re doing it pretty similarly to many of us and many lurkers we don’t know about, and many normal people of other religions. We are in an age where religion is being redefined, and the church will be adapting to it. As families, we should too and not wait for the church.
My guess is the kids aren’t confused about it now (have they questioned it or is it just parents worried they will question it? Maybe the kids are in kid-mode…and could care less about adult problems?). Don’t let the stories put it in their developing minds as a negative thing towards their dad. Can it be a positive that they grow up learning it is ok to think for themselves and follow their heart instead of obey blindly? Are we not taught that is the plan of salvation?
Especially if they see their dad is awesome, loving, fun to be around, good to others, and all the other good qualities Jesus teaches and they hear about in church. How they “feel” about dad and how stories are told about it will be part of their growing up. They can reinforce thoughts that actions are what we judge by, not beliefs, thoughts, or assumptions of others and differences.
Is mom open to that line of thinking? If not…the conversation to the kids might be less than ideal if it’s all about dad, and mom is the “right” one. That’s confusing for kids in the long run.
Maybe you can offer to mom to reinforce some important gospel principles like being kind and focusing on family and other values you want to instill in the kids that are gonna be there regardless of whether dad has deeper philosophical tangential theories on complex subjects outside of home life. The important thing is the kids are loved and the family pulls together.
I have successfully produced a traditional believing daughter while in the midst of faith/commitment crisis. I decided that kids need the black and white version of the gospel, minus the judgmentalism when growing up. They need it more than faith crisis, which can leave them rudderless and religion-barren. So I never taught them about shades of belief, commitment crisis, etcetera. I found the church did a good enough job of teaching orthodox Mormonism as long as I took her there every week. She gained her own testimony, although I did instill in her testimony and prayer when she was young, and I was orthodox, that spawned this testimony in her later in life. She emerged full of testimony.
I would rather have my children embrace the simplicity of the textbook gospel during their formative years so they also adhere to the clean living of Mormonism. When they get to be adults, and capable of deep thought, i will be there for them if they want it.
I think a good principle of StayLDS is not to disturb the belief of others. We are a fringe group, many with extraordinary experiences with leadership abuse, the dark side of church, and personalities that are intellectual and questioning. Commitment/Faith crisis is not for everyone, so I’m not going to rain on anyone’s parade.
I say leave it. Teach what you can with authenticity at home, let others or your spouse teach the orthodox stuff, and remain quiet and supportive. When they ask about specific questions (like my daughter asking why I don’t go to the temple or have garments), you don’t have to give an answer immediately. Come here and let’s talk it out so you can make your own mind. Then give them a carefully crafted answer that preserves their faith while opening their minds at the same time. But gently. But be hard on the destructive aspects of our culture — disunity in families over gospel issues, judgmentalism, closed-mindedness. Inoculate them against that, and prepare them to live the best of Mormonism.
That’s my take on it. Are you planning to continue attending church?
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This is a tough one :think: Thanks for the replies and links to other forums. Very helpful. SD, I plan on attending and supporting for now. It is family time and while I don’t believe, the benefits of attending out weigh the down sides for now. My wife’s biggest concern is having kids leave the faith. She feels that if I just pretend that this will have a large negative impact down the road and they will be hurt and more likely to be bitter or angry against the church.
My concern is that they will be raised assuming I am a believer which is dishonest. I realize that I am probably at a greater level of disbelief than many of you. I think if I still had some level of testimony I could focus on that. But if I am being perfectly honest, I do not have any belief right now. I see good things in the church and definite positives and benefits from raising kids in it. But if my wife was on the same page as me, I would leave in a heart beat.
I know that is probably very different from many of you, and thanks for accepting me and letting me participate in this forum anyway. I have come a long way in my journey in the past year and it has broken my heart to discover that the church is not what it claims to be. I hope to spare my children that heart break by teaching them nuance (as age appropriate), actual history, and giving them tools to make good decisions. I also want them to see that it is ok to believe differently, something I never felt free to do growing up.
I’m still not sure how to frame this exactly with my kids but my wife and I are both in agreement that we need to include them in this journey.
I heard this mantra and I liked it and felt it also described me to some extent: “Skepticism is my nature, free thought is my methodology, agnosticism is my conclusion, atheism is my opinion, and humanitarianism is my motivation.”
Thanks for all the support here. It means more than you could know for someone with lack of belief like myself to find support in a group of believers. Elsewhere (at home and at church), I am made to feel like a failure for my perspectives, however honestly and sincerely they are arrived at.
I very much like the approach Heber described. I believe that there is an opportunity to talk about diversity of thought without making one out as being deficient. My 11 year old daughter was recently talking to us about a school friend that is JW. This friend says that she cannot associate with non-JW’s outside of school. We discussed how from their perspective they could see close associations with non believers as temptations to corrupt or lose strength/resolution in their faith. I told DD that I had heard stories of some LDS families not permitting their children to play with the non-LDS kids in the neighborhood. While we ultimately respect the parenting and family decisions of others, we are saddened by their exclusion.
DD came up with an analogy where she said that it is all like a game of telephone. The gospel was transmitted imperfectly to various individuals who all heard something slightly different but the commonalities are greater than the differences.
DoubtingTom wrote:
I heard this mantra and I liked it and felt it also described me to some extent: “Skepticism is my nature, free thought is my methodology, agnosticism is my conclusion, atheism is my opinion, and humanitarianism is my motivation.”
I like that quote. I feel it describes me as well.
DoubtingTom wrote:
My wife’s biggest concern is having kids leave the faith. She feels that if I just pretend that this will have a large negative impact down the road and they will be hurt and more likely to be bitter or angry against the church.I think that if a parent openly states their lack of belief in the church, this will encourage leaving the faith. I know that in one family home evening I blurted out that Sacrament meeting and church was BORING. My kids gave me looks of UTTER SHOCK, that I said that. And the boring excuse was used regularly by my son to get out of church, or at least try.
I think its better to see you doing the outward parts of the church. If they assume belief for now, that is fine. You didn’t lie to them. People serve and area active for a variety or reasons. Let the church and maybe your wife share the gospel and be supportive. Teach the parts you can still agree with. There will come a time when they notice that perhaps you don’t do certain things — specific to your situation — and they will ask you about it. At that time, deal with it, but limit discussion to that one issue.
There is nothing dishonest about going to church because its family time, going to the temple for social reasons, or doing the Mormon textbook for personal reasons. Nothing wrong with paying tithing as membership dues or to support the good the church does in fact create in teh lives of members. You don’t have to do it out of faith or out of a commandment. What is dishonest is STATING you “know the church is true” or other outright lies when you don’t.
That’s just my opinion — if your wife’s concern is their activity in the church, then I believe the best thing for their activity is to see two parents who are active in the church. Keep your doubt out of it or some of you kids, depending on their personalities, will integrate doubt rather than faith into their view of Mormonism.
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