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How would/do you feel if your kids do not/are not active in the church when they get to make their own choices? I was talking to a TBM friend the other day, and he told me neither of his sons care about the church. The one who is an adult wants nothing to do with it. My TBM friend commented that “at times I wonder what the point of it all is now”.
I would like to see what you all think…and what your hopes are for your family if it turns out none of your kids are active in the church as adults or late teenagers…
I’ve told my kids I will support them in whatever choices they make, and I have to be willing to mean it. I told my second son I supported his decision not to serve a mission, and I did (and still do).
I told two of my children I would support them if they decided to marry outside the temple, and, while neither has done so at this point, I will if one or both of them make that decision.
Myself, I have the same batting average as my Pop. .250, which ain’t bad, unless Sister Stikupperump is at the podium lying about her 1000 average… When we’re born it’s like we get a brand new airplane. At first our parents fly it for us, then fly it with us and ultimately parents have to sit in coach and watch…
I go back and forth sometimes. As a kid and young adult I was really happy in the church, and a big part of me wants them to have the exact same upbringing. As an adult, I would like my kids to come to the same conclusions that I have, so I can talk to them about it. But then I realize I’m basically wishing for my kids to be clones of me, and that’s not the point. I hope I can achieve what Ray talks about, where I can feel good supporting my kids no matter what they decide later in life. SilentDawning wrote:How would/do you feel if your kids do not/are not active in the church when they get to make their own choices?
If they were happy, well-adjusted, married to good people, equipped for life’s challenges, strengthened and inspired by whatever belief they
dohave, making a contribution to society, and still loving their parents. . . . How could I be upset? The closest we’ve gotten to “what if” scenarios has been one conversation about marriage. I did say that I cared more about who they married than where they married. I have a semi active adult daughter who I support fully regardless of her decisions regarding church/attendance. DW and I don’t really see eye-to-eye on the subject and she is much more prone to judge and pester her about her church attendance. DD knows this and usually doesn’t share how often she does or doesn’t attend, although she does seem to be more open to me about it. I also have a son serving a mission, so obviously he is very active at the moment. The other two are teens, and whatever choice they make I will be supportive. DW is currently nagging the older one, a senior in high school, to attend BYU like his siblings both did. He isn’t opposed to BYU, but he also has the ability (smarts) to get into pretty much any other top school he chooses. He has done his BYU application, but he also has applied to other schools. From a financial standpoint, BYU is a bargain for us Easterners – it costs roughly the same as SUNY schools (and there are some very good SUNY schools). Again I support him in his choice whether it be BYU or not (although I have counseled him about the huge debt associated with the myriad of private liberal arts colleges we have in the East) but if doesn’t choose BYU we may have a battle to wage with Mom. While we have never deeply discussed it, he does know I have questions/doubts and he is a thinker so I’m pretty sure he has some doubts, too. The younger son definitely has doubts. Quote:I was talking to a TBM friend the other day, and he told me neither of his sons care about the church. The one who is an adult wants nothing to do with it. My TBM friend commented that “at times I wonder what the point of it all is now”.
What a sad statement! SD’s friend totally misunderstands the true nature of children. One of the best books I read on the subject was the Blank Slate by Stephen Pinker. In one chapter, he challenges the assumptions that parents make that they are the true shapers of their children. Children come into this world with their own preset strengths and weaknesses (given our theology this should be no surprise). In addition, children come into this world with agency (again no surprise) and the combination of inclinations and agency may lead them down other paths. Pinker then notes that parents when confronted with such realities often say “well, what’s the point? All these sacrifices and time and energy and NO control over the outcome?”
He then makes two points: while we have no control over their tomorrows, we have the ability to make their todays wonderful or miserable. His second point: our children are PEOPLE not medals of honor or achievement.
+ 1 to Gerald’s entire comment I like to think of myself as a guide or life coach. Ultimately the life is theirs to live!
Gerald wrote:while we have no control over their tomorrows, we have the ability to make their todays wonderful or miserable.
I came to a hard realization that we are not promised tomorrow. My kids might suddenly be taken or I might be the one to die and they might grow without a father. I resolve to not sacrifice today in preparation for tomorrow which might never come. I try to live so that each day, week, month, and year is fulfilling and meaningful unto itself.
Beautiful, Gerald and Roy. Thank you.
For me, this is not a “how willyou feel if…” but a “how doyou feel since…” question. I have a 34-year old son and a 31-year-old daughter and neither is active in the Church. Both are living with significant others. We have a good relationship, but that’s only because I make it a point not to mention the Church in our conversations. It truly breaks my heart, and no matter what anybody tells me, I blame myself. Yes, they have their agency, but somehow I must have gone wrong in raising them. How would I feel? I’d like to think that my priority is that my children are happy and learn to live ‘after the manner of happiness’. That doesn’t require activity in the Mormon church but I believe it does require living according to a basic code of ethics. If my children love God and love their neighbors and live the golden rule, I expect they will find both joy and meaning in life. For that matter, if they love their neighbors they are loving God so even if they are unable to believe, I still think they can be happy. Ultimately, I’d like them to embrace the good I find in my faith because it leads me to the path outlined above but if activity in the church breeds unhappiness in them and causes them to live a life of misery, self-flagellation, unnecessary guilt, or futile box-checking in an effort to earn God’s love, (as my first 30 years in the church did for me) then I would prefer they find God elsewhere rather than suffer silently at my side in the pew.
But I’m a universalist so I have faith that God will bring all His children home in time…
I think there is a cultural expectation that children fully active in the church is the most desirable result or end goal – the crown of motherhood as it were. I understand why this is set as a milestone marker, but I reject the underlying premise. One of the best paradigm shifts I got was from Dr. Barkley regarding ADHD children and families. He advised us that as parents, we are not the engineers of our children, so we should stop trying to be. He pointed out that we are more like the shepherds of our children. He pointed out that shepherds lead the sheep to the best environment available and keep an eye out for dangers. These are important jobs – and there is a lot to do in those jobs. BUT as parents, we need to accept that our role is not as comprehensive as it is touted to be sometimes and refuse to take the guilt that we can’t engineer them into perfection.
For me, I will feel successful if my children are able to function in society (hold a job, manage their lives) for the most part, and if they (and we as the parents) are able to handle the “what ifs” (what if my daughter embraces being lesbian, what if my daughter gets a divorce, what if my daughter gets into a fender-bender, what if my daughters don’t want to apart of our caretaker group when we are old, what if either of my daughters are in a emotionally unhealthy/abusive relationship with someone, what if my daughter isn’t invited to senior prom) without causing lasting emotional damage to our relationship with each other.
Other than that, I think that there are 2 principles at play that need to be included in the equation:
1.
Is my child lagging behind on developmental milestones?I am talking in general about stages of growth. For example, my oldest has some developmental delays that do not make Achievement Days an intuitive fit for her. She does not sit still and process non-verbal expectations very well – especially in the evening when the medication she takes is wearing off. Handling her 5-6 year old social behavior (which is what we get when we put her in a boring environment where all that is happening is talking) in a group of 9-12 year old girls where the expectation is that the girls will sit still and chat happily puts my daughter in a situation that is not good for my daughter or the other girls. It sets up the situation where my daughter’s limited behavior in this area is obvious and leaves the other girls at best ignoring her and at worst bullying her. So my husband and I are going to insist that she be “inactive” or not attend some activities that won’t hold meaning for her. And yes, some TBMs (usually of the generation before mine) will think we are making the wrong judgement call and that my daughter “should” be attending. And I will smile and nod and thank them for the advice sincerely. If they bring it up again, I will ask them if they are volunteering to be at my daughter’s side for all sitting only Achievement Days and “walk a mile in my shoes”. 2.
Is my child unhappy?If my child is unhappy in the religion, I would like to know why – both for her sake and mine. It may be a case of anxiety, or perfectionism thinking, or unrealistic expectations on behalf of my daughter that my mature insight may have a worthy insight for. It may be a case of lifestyle disconnect, or my daughter has a different spiritual path. 2.5 I would rather my daughter be inactive and sincere in finding and following a spiritual path and having respectful conversations about it then fully active and “auto-piloting” her spirituality. But this might just be me – I am big on being as authentic in my motivations and thoughts (though I don’t see either daughter being quiet traditional TBMs – I know who their parents and grand parents are
I like to try to explore what’s at the root of the question. How will you feel if your kids do not grow up active? Do (or should) we base our happiness on the decisions other people make? I don’t think the answer is as simple as yes or no. Other people’s decisions will affect our happiness. But… AmyJ wrote:
I think there is a cultural expectation that children fully active in the church is the most desirable result or end goal – the crown of motherhood as it were.
This is very much a part of church culture. I’ve made comments about this in the past, sometimes our concern over the status of our eternal family serves as a barrier that prevents us from having a “right now” family. We’re so concerned that a family member’s attitude towards the church will prevent them from being with us in heaven that we shut them out in the here and now. Will a child’s status with the church be what separates them from us or will we do that ourselves?
Gerald wrote:
All these sacrifices and time and energy and NO control over the outcome?”
You touched on something (with me at least). The siren song of certainty. We’re uncertain about what happens after we die. The certainty that there is a heaven helps us overcome fear and anxiety. We like to believe that there are a series of if > then behaviors that will guarantee us a spot in heaven. “I, the Lord, am bound when ye do what I say; but when ye do not what I say, ye have no promise.” Our certainty can work for and against us. If we are doing the ifs our fears are calmed, if we aren’t doing the ifs our fears are amplified, and it’s human nature to project our certainties onto others.
If > then can work really well in the physical realm, so much so that it may make us believe that it works equally well in the spiritual realm, but I’ve found that our spiritual certainties often aren’t nearly as certain as we believe them to be. It’s all good though. I don’t need to be eternally right, I just need to be right long enough to take the next step.
Lots of words to say that control over the outcome is an illusion, a representation of our hopes and fantasies. Sometimes they pan out, sometimes they don’t.
:wtf: Back on topic…Obviously now I don’t care whether my kids grow up to be active in church. At one point I even felt that I’d be successful as a parent if my kids decided to go inactive… but for the right reasons.
🙂 Projecting.But my kids’ lives are their own. When I joined the church my parents were a little trepidacious. When I decided to serve a mission they had much stronger feelings that I was going down the wrong path in life. Now, decades later, do I feel they were they vindicated? Were they right about me going down the wrong path in life? No. My life, my path. All my parents could do was relate what they would do if they were me but they weren’t me. Joining the church and serving a mission was something I needed to do, it might not have been eternally right but it was right long enough for me to take that next step in life that I needed to take.
And that’s what I feel about my kid’s decision to be active in the church. I may feel it’s wrong or right but there’s really no way for me to know whether it’s
theirwrong or right. What represents their right will change over time anyway. It’s their path. I can find happiness in them pursuing their own happiness. Personally, I’m more nervous what they will become, if not active. True or not, religion is excellent at dicrecting and controlling behavior. Our actions definitely influcence our children, although nothing is garaunteed. Will they be good, honest, charitable people? Will their activity be replaced with something worse? nibbler wrote:AmyJ wrote:
I think there is a cultural expectation that children fully active in the church is the most desirable result or end goal – the crown of motherhood as it were.
This is very much a part of church culture. I’ve made comments about this in the past, sometimes our concern over the status of our eternal family serves as a barrier that prevents us from having a “right now” family. We’re so concerned that a family member’s attitude towards the church will prevent them from being with us in heaven that we shut them out in the here and now. Will a child’s status with the church be what separates them from us or will we do that ourselves?
Yoda:
Quote:All his life has he looked away to the future, to the horizon. Never his mind on where he was. Hmm? What he was doing.”
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