Howdy

[Anonymous]

Hello all,

I have been looking for a place to find support for where I am at spiritually right now. I am not newly disaffected. I have been feeling this way for about a year now. It all started when I became disillusioned with some tenets of the Gospel. I was also having a problem with the way some people took everything that was said by someone in authority and preached as if it had come from God himself and then magnified it to the Nth degree. So I started doing what we have been taught to do and prayed and studied the scriptures. I made the mistake of going to the internet to do some research to get answers to my questions. That just seemed to make things worse. There is a lot of Anti-Mormon stuff out there. I did happen upon the New Order Mormon website and joined. I had found people just like me. I spent a fair amount of time lurking and making a few posts now and then and discovered that there are some really good folks over there (I have noticed a few that hang out here as well). I still look in every now and then. For me, the problem with NOM was that there were a few posts that I felt moved me even further away from the Gospel. I became very open about my feelings about certain things in the Church. My DW noticed the change and things got very tense in our relationship. It got to the point that I felt the need to stop going to the NOM website and make things right with my DW. I redoubled my efforts to live the Gospel and I guess I did a pretty good job because just as I was starting to curtail my visits to NOM I was called as a High Priest and then a few months later I was called to the High Council. Yay me. Things definitely improved with my DW. I have really done a lot of soul searching the last few months to figure out where I am spiritually. There are some inconsistencies and historical “issues” that I have a tough time reconciling that I will probably never get over. All in all I do think there is a lot good about the Church. Family, kindness, service and those types of things are a great way to live life. I think that what the Gospel stands for is true I am just not sure about some of the other stuff. I have been reading a lot Wheat and Tares articles and lurking here and that has helped me find a happy medium I think. I don’t want to quit the Church but I definitely need to find a happy place where I can vent my frustrations and still be encouraged to see the good in the Church. My wife is pretty TBM and have a kid on a mission and another getting ready to go to BYU this fall.

I am hoping “This is the place.”

Thanks all.

[Anonymous]

Welcome, ghostman. If you’ve lurked here for a while, hopefully you’ve been able to read some of our archived posts, as well as the currently active ones.

Your hope is our mission – that we can help remember and value the good even as we deal with the not-good. I hope this place helps you somehow – and that you help us somehow.

[Anonymous]

Ghostman, welcome. My advice to you would be to just stay here. Even though I have doubts about the church I still feel that as long as we center ourselves around Christ and live a Christlike life the rest of it doesn’t matter. I think you should embrace what feels right and good and whatever doesn’t feel right and good simply discard or at least set aside. I think the worst thing you can do is let guilt set in. Guilt about having doubts, guilt about exploring alternative views. etc. once the guilt sets in the next step is becoming an ex-mormon. If you do have those feelings we are here to help and support you. It sounds though, as if you are doing pretty well and I’ll probably be turning to you for advice. welcome again and hope to keep seeing you on here.

[Anonymous]

ghostman,

welcome to the happy medium.    …  that is a good way to think of the enlightened middle Way that isn’t focused on the negatives of the Church, but instead, finds joy in celebrating the core truths of the Gospel.

I like your example of the person who takes the words of GA, and then “magnifies” them 10x.  Once we dwell in the words, we lose the core inspired idea that went behind the words.  likewise, the prophets who founded great religions like the Church, were enlightened by the spirit to do something, but were flawed men (as are we all). Their words and actions reflect both the inspiration of the divine as well as the flaws of men. Therefore, the words they said were but a flawed shadow of the inspired idea, and those that followed amplified the flaws 10x.  

we have a choice of three alternatives, maybe more.

1. The Way of the 14 Fundamentals.  We can continue to magnify the words of the prophets, thinking every word — flawed or not — is inspired and mandatory, and live our lives ever measuring ourselves against that standard.

2. The Way of disaffection.  We take the words of the prophets, and magnify the flaws in them, to point out how they are false, and focus on those inconsistencies to condemn the church.

3. The Middle Way.  By shedding the extremes of the words, we seek to find the Word that is at the core of the words of the prophets. 

The Word is truth: all truth.  only truth.  words are only the shadow.  living in the shadow is no life at all.  he who once said, “I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life” lived and taught in a church that was all about the words of the law and nothing about the Word.  He challenged those caught up in the words, “Ye search the scriptures, thinking they are the Word, but they are they which testify of Me (the Word).”  words point to the Word.  they are not the Word, nor are they the Way.

Importantly, while He who was the Word challenged people to see the Word within the words, he did not challenge their Faith, nor encourage them to “leave the church” by ceasing being faithful Jews. He encouraged them to be more righteous than the Pharisees, not in their hypocritical, fanatical observance of the Law, but in the Way of truth and life. The first Christians were not so called, but rather, they called themselves, “Followers of the Way” (See Acts 22:4, NIV) – a More Excellent Way, the Way of Love.

The Middle Way is not the way of mediocrity, nor is it the ways of the extremes of idolatry of the words of scripture or prophets.  the Middle Way is to find the truth and light that exists behind the words, to find the Word, Logos, Reason to which the words point.  That Word is not found in magnifying the defects, but in seeing the golden nuggets of truth amidst the defects.  That’s the beauty of the Church: truth is there, but a bit of discernment may be required.

You have a stewardship as a high councilor.  You cannot afford to live in the chaff of idolatry that dwells in the words and defects of the Church.  In my impression, this required me to sort out what I truly believe: the Truth at the core.  Once I defined my personal statement of belief, I started being able to relate to the core truths of the Church, by focusing on where the concepts between my belief and the Church are in harmony.  It is important to remember that those you teach and to whom you serve need to be edified, not challenged (at least initially), so by focusing on the core beliefs we share, we can spiritually communicate something that feeds our souls.

[Anonymous]

NOM is a great community too. They have a wider range of expression than we do here, opening up more of the less-believing part of the spectrum. I occasionally post over there too. We keep a more narrow focus here at StayLDS.com, taking that trade off to maintain a more constructive tone.

Glad to have you participating here. Welcome to the community.

[Anonymous]

Ghostman, thank you for the introduction & welcome.

I hope you can take comfort in knowing that many of us have been taking the same path

that you are. It does get better. It does get clearer. I hope you’ll hang around & continue to contribute.

Mike from Milton.

[Anonymous]

Welcome. I think you’ll like it here. I was attracted to this particular forum because of its positive vibe as well. I’m only about 6 months into my faith journey, but I have already started to feel a lot more at peace with the transition since opening up and talking about things. I look forward to reading your posts!

[Anonymous]

Glad you’re here ghostman.

Have you found that your views help you be more compassionate with members of your stake? Perhaps as you travel and talk, you can find ways to be a voice of inspiration to those who need to hear from your testimony, just as you are. It can bring a genuine quality to the calling you have and the opportunity to serve others.

I look forward to learning more from you and your posts here. Thanks for joining.

[Anonymous]

Heber,

In answer to your question I would say that while I have always been fairly good about not judging others, my views have really changed the way I look at others in the last year. I am a fairly new on the HC so I haven’t had to deal with members too much yet. In the few talks I have given I have definitely tried to allow my current testimony show through a little but I feel the need to temper how I really feel for fear of causing problems. The Stake Presidency are all great men but a little traditional. I am going out on assignment this week and am not sure what I will talk about yet. I do want make sure that whatever it is that it will appeal to and help all members no matter where they are on the spirituality scale.

To all,

Thanks for the warm welcome and thanks for allowing me to be part of your great community. Glad to be here.

Ghostman

[Anonymous]

Welcome Ghostman,

My disaffection started in full speed when I was ordained a high priest. I already had doubts but that seemed to clinch it. One of my thoughts was if I am having doubts then why am I being ordained a high priest and where is the inspiration.

I am also a member of NOM but have stayed mostly away the last few months. They are a great bunch of folks but I found myself getting angry when I was browsing the forums. I find StayLDS more mellow but at the same time very cerebral. Almost too much for me because I like to skim the forums and move on. Maybe it’s because some of our members make me think too much.

What I really wanted to comment on was this ” It all started when I became disillusioned with some tenets of the Gospel.” What tenents of the Gospel or did I miss them? I often ask the question, What is the Gospel? To me it isn’t the LDS Church or the whole of its teachings. To me the Gospel is plain and simple. It is

“36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?

37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

38 This is the first and great acommandment.

39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.”

Just my thoughts.

[Anonymous]

Thoreau,

I guess I used the term ‘Gospel’ a little too generically. What I should have said is that I became disillusioned with what some of the things I learned about the Church. You are right. The Gospel is pretty simple and and the verses quoted are great. It is sometimes tough to seperate the Gospel from the Church.

I have issues with members treating every word that the President of the Church says as scripture. When Pres Hinckley made the comment about ear rings the uproar was huge in our ward. But if you listen to it I am pretty sure he made it sound like his opinion and nothing else. Yet it is now a “Gospel Truth” to many in the Church. The same with white shirts, facial hair etc… I guess in this regard my problem is more with the people and not the Gospel. I have trouble believing that God would exclude anyone because you wear two ear rings in each ear or have a beard.

I have concerns about some aspects of Church History like polygamy, the Priesthood for all and some of the things BY did and said. I also have problem with the black and white of things. Sometimes it just isn’t that simple and I feel like many in leadership positions don’t understand or allow for that.

Finally, I have some concerns about things like the Church’s handling of Prop 8 (and related issues) and some of its financial dealings.

I guess what it boils down to is that I have a problem with the imperfect human aspects of the Church and not the true Gospel part as you pointed out. Thanks for helping me differentiate things.

Ghostman

[Anonymous]

Ghostman,

You have found a bunch of likeminded people. Once again, welcome, and enjoy your stay.

[Author]

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