- This topic is empty.
-
Posts
-
Quote:
Luke 6:27 “But I say unto yo, love your enemies, do good to those who spitefully use you.”
Luke 6:35 “…and your reward will be great, and you will be (children) of the Most High. For He is kind to the unthankful and evil.”
Luke 6:36 “Therefore be merciful, just as your Father also is merciful”
Matthew 5:48 (Orson’s translation): “Love ye therefore perfectly, even as your Father which is in heaven loves perfectly.”
Amen Bridget,
When you have it all figured out and are about to be translated, come and show me how
Love your emenies is one of the hardest things for me. But, I found this great talk on how it might work: How to Love Your Enemies
I was just reading the Sermon on the Mount this morning and there was some commentary on it that I thought was very good. Just wanted to share it and see what you think?
Loving your enemies is one of the most difficult commandments. The dictionary says an enemy may be one who cherishes harmful designs against another, one who is hostile or extremely unfriendly, a declared opponent or adversary, an assailant, a backbiter, or slanderer, a military antagonist, a stiff competitor, or a traitor.
Obviously, there are many different kinds of enemies, and they must be dealt with in several different ways. Perhaps we could classify them in 3 different groups.
1. There is the human relations enemy. This is the most common kind. Such an enemy may arise from a personality conflict, an off-handed, unkind remark, spreading gossip or tale-bearing, perceiving the individual as being a social or business threat, perhaps mutual resentment because of adverse political views or even different religious views.
This type of “enemy” can be cultivated with kindness and tolerance easier than the next two groups. Sometimes it simply requires getting better acquainted with the other person to make the hostility barrier diminish and eventually disappear. Watching for an opportunity to do a favor for an adversary nearly always alleviates tensions and opens doors for better relations. Seeking to develop a true sense of understanding and love can bring some surprising results.
2. The next group is more challenging. This is where you or your family have suffered a significant injury by someone. The injury may be physical, economic, or even an injury to one’s position in a profession or social status. Even wanting to love this kind of enemy takes a lot of prayer and introspection. But since this problem arises in every congregation or neighborhood, the Lord has suggested the following procedure to see if the feelings of those who have been injured can be resolved. In the New Testament it says. “Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou has gained they brother. But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established. And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.”
Although this three-step attempt to love someone who has been an offender does not always work, it succeeds often enough to make it very worthwhile.
3. Finally, we come to the third and most difficult group of all. These re the wretched wicked. They are the enemies of all the community, sometimes preying upon the whole of society. This type of enemy is in a mental state of anarchy and revolt. We call it the criminal mind. This type of person enjoys his or her greatest satisfaction in getting away with deceit and treachery. This type of enemy does not respond to kindness and love the way both of the other groups usually do. This last group considers kindness a weakness. It is interpreted as stupidity that deserves to be exploited by the criminal. To love this kind of enemy requires a different approach.
Professional penologists have learned that the criminal mind must discover certain strict and undeviating legal barriers beyond which he or she cannot go. The criminal must discover that he or she cannot go beyond these limits without inviting serious consequences. This is called establishing fixed parameters with visible firmness. The next step is to establish a sense of fairness–a feeling that he or she is being treated fairly even though the program is administered with firmness. The incorrigible criminal may not respond to the firmness-fairness therapy, but the majority do. Once the criminal has demonstrated a desire to cooperate and get back on track, then the element of love and kindness can be carefully administered in measured does.
However, at no time must the criminal get the impression you feel sorry for him or her. Nor must the criminal get the impression that you accept any kind of excuse for what happened. It is very important that the offender face up to what was done. The lord calls it ‘confession of sins.” Penologists call it ‘reality therapy.”
So we learn from the Lord what he means by loving our enemies. We must love them enough to want to help them. However, there is no requirement that we drown them with love. Wisdom must be used. Love is a very sacred and precious attribute and it must be administered carefully and wisely. It must not be cheapened or squandered. The best kind of love is reciprocal love, and this the ultimate goal–to change an enemy into a loving friend.
Thanks for the article Bridget. For me, I am working on showing love, understanding, and forgiveness to the first two classes of people.
Thankfully, I don’t have many (if any) of the latter class of people in my life. And if I did, I think my reaction to them would be predominantly unloving. I hope I would be able to temper this reaction with patience, but I don’t see any danger of my pendelum swinging so far in the other direction as to love them too much.
I look similarly on the grace vs. works argument. I suppose there are some that would see grace as a justification to do all sort of hurtful things – that is not me. For me grace gives me permission to love myself, and not to give up.
So in summary- my natural inclination is to fullfill my responsibilities. I tend to expect the same from others. I am trying to temper this predisposition with grace and forgiveness for myself and others.
God loves me, God loves you, Isn’t that cool?
Well, the bishop and HPGL showed up tonight. I was not there as they only asked to speak to my husband, plus I still felt too much resentment towards this bishop. The bishop first said he had come to apologize to me and was surprised I was not there. My husband said that since they only asked for him, that I assumed they only wanted to talk to my husband. The bishop said that was a mis-communication as he had wanted to talk to both of us. Well, then they should have said “We would like to talk to both you and your wife.” Anyway, my husband told the bishop I was pretty upset with him and that I thought he was insenstive, unempathetic, and overbearing. I was surprised my husband said all that to him but it was the truth. The bishop was defensive and said “Your wife doesn’t even know me and I don’t recall being that way to her the few times we talked.” The relief society president had already told me that others had felt the same way with how he treated them. So, this bishop does not get that he can be rude when he talks to others. In fact the RS president had told me that if he had treated her that way when she moved here, she would not have become active. Then my husband went on and explained why he had left the church three years ago; mainly that he never got a witness to the BofM after 30 years of fasting and praying and studying it, besides his negative experiences with the priesthood. My husband went into detail about how he felt so prompted 3 times to tell a sister that God would heal her soon and she would live a long life when he gave her a priesthood blessing in front of her non-lds family members and then she died the following week. My husband told the bishop he just did not believe in the power of the priesthood. The bishop asked him if he knew the church was false. My husband said no, he did not KNOW for sure that the church was false, but from his experiences, he did believe it was most likely false. He told the bishop he liked alot of the lds teachings because they were more rational than other Christian churches, but that did not necessarily make them true.
Then the bishop asked him about his temple covenants and whether he was willing to give up all his blessings. My husband said he felt God was just and since he had honestly tried to live the gospel and get a testimony and did not, that he had a clear conscience. The bishop told my husband that he had thought we were joining the Nazarene church and was going to excommunicate us for that. My husband said we had no plans to join any other church as we did not believe in their doctrines but were active there as a social group only. Then the bishop said he was pleased about that and was not going to excommunicate us but just put us on an inactive list. He asked my husband if high priests could visit him on ocassion and my husband he would not mind that but he felt it would be a waste of their time and he also did not want to shake anyone’s faith. He said that if someone is happy in the church and its working for them then he did not want to rock their boat as he had nothing better to offer them at this point. He said he really liked the Nazarence people and church and if he felt it was true then he would try to conver others, but he only felt it was a wonderful social group.
The bishop told my husband that if we ever changed our minds about coming back to the church were would be welcomed. He told my husband he would send me an email to apologize to me and he would communicate that way with me. My husband felt that would be best but warned the bishop that I am a straight foreward person in my letters. So, I don’t know if this bishop ever read the email I had sent his wife or saw the John Dehlin utube video. We’ll see if he actually emails me and what he says. Apparently the bishop was pleased that we just didn’t know whether the church was true rather than knew it was false. At least this time he did not argue with my husband about his experiences in the church like he did before. The HPGL did not say a word, so when the bishop asked if they could leave with a prayer, my husband asked the HPGL to say it. I will let you know if I get an email from the bishop and how this saga continues.
Sounds like it could have been much worse. I really wish you would have been there. It’s really too bad that men in the Church haven’t figured out that they’ve marginalized the women in so many respects that we think we have to be specifically invited and that “both of you” must be specific and can never just be implied. Bridget — I have a few thoughts on this: I felt the Bishop’s response to your concerns about his behavior was wrong. You can’t refute people’s (your) perceptions about things until at least you acknowledge them, and search for the reasons people perceive you a certain way. I think the Bishop might have asked what gave you the impression he was overbearing etcetera., and then clarified his true intent. Perhaps even given an apology if he realized your perceptions had some validity in retrospect.
The overarching principle I get out of this, however, is that you have to be really careful what you say to Church leaders. While I empathize with the feelings that have led you here, it seems like it can paint a person into a corner. I have a lot of contrarion attitudes right now, however, I think the passage of time may well wear them away and hopefully I will return to full inward activity, not just outward-looking activity like I display now. If I was you, I would vent here at this site, and be as positive as you can toward the Church when around Church members. You do have some things you like about the Church, and so does your husband — focus on those things around members so at least you maintain the flexibility to be part of this to the full extent you want to in the future (that may happen sometime, who knows how life will influence our thinking).
Silent Dawning and Observant. Thank you for your replies. I have ususally been the type of person that does not want to make waves (believe or not). I hate confrontation and want everyone to just get along. So, a lot of my life I have swallowed my pride and taken abuse just to keep the peace. I found this not to be healthy for me as I then tend to let things build up and explode then. I was trying to analyiz why I have so much hostility and anger towards this bishop. I know it had to do with not feeling unconditional love, being attacked for my doubts and questions, and then having my husband and kids attacked for not having testimonies. I think the thing that was hardest was not feeling any compassion or empathy for what our family has been going through. What I would like this bishop and my TBM friends and family to understand is that so much has been building inside of me for years now as far as what bothers me about the church and its leaders (past and present). You get so tired of being brushed off or made to feel you are a bad person for having doubts or questions. I guess that sometimes I just want to let it riiiiippppp! But, I guess I will do it here instead. I am frustrated because the church has been my life and I want it to be true, but when I read stuff like Lucy Walkers experience with JS and polygamy, I feel like he was a manipulator and cult leader. I don’t understand why my experiences in the temple have so negative. I don’t like how the church has changed from encouraging investigation and questioning to muzzling teachers to only the standard work (even though GA’s do it all the time) and even to limiting what you can say when bearing your testimony. Any of you ever just want to scream! But, you are right Silent Dawning. We never know when things could change in our lives and to not burn bridges. It’s just hard to focus on the positive sometimes. For me it would be like trying to ignore my husband is cheating on me and abusing children and just focusing on what a good provider he is and how he repairs everything so nicely around the house.
Sorry, If I sound like I am loosing it sometimes.
Just for consideration: Bishops have SO much they have to do, and not all of them have the natural personalities to do lots of those things “perfectly”. Some are just like the rest of us – having no idea how they come across in how they react to situations and people that are difficult for them to understand. Based solely on what you shared, it sounds like this Bishop just doesn’t know how to interact with someone in your and your husband’s shoes – but it also sounds like he is trying his best. It sounds like he was trying to figure out your situation and act accordingly – and that he was glad to hear that you aren’t forsaking the Church officially. It sounds like he didn’t want to take any official action with regard to your membership – and that he genuinely is willing to take a hands-off approach and let you work things out on your own. It sounds like he went away from it seeing you and your husband in a different light – and I hope you and your husband see him in a different light, as well.
There are aspects I would change if I could to make it “ideal” – but most of it was more positive than negative, imo.
I have told you all along that I believe, based on what you’ve shared in all your time here, that there is “blame” all around – if blame were to be assigned. I think the BIshop made some mistakes for your own personal situation, but I also think you made some mistakes in your reaction to him.
I’m not sure anything could have occurred differently, however, so I personally would not assign “blame” on either side.I think it probably was a perfect storm that could not have been avoided at this time in your life – and I think it probably is good that it happened as it did. I think it will give you a chance – IF YOU WILL TAKE IT– to step back a bit and start dealing with the underlying issues that drove the situation on your own end – the things that you mentioned toward the end of your last comment – the things over which you have a degree of countrol. That, imo, is a very good thing.
I think you are absolutely right (as usual) Ray. I have really been analyzing this all day and working it through. I know you are right that I need to own my part in this. I also believe that it all happened as it should have and much good will come from it. Thank you! Bridget
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.