I am finally at peace…sort of

[Anonymous]

I am still a member of the LDS Church but there are things that I cannot reconcile any longer. I know many wonderful LDS people and my wife is still a believer in the religion. I have nothing against the membership or the leadership- I know that they are just doing what they believe in.

There are 2 things that I find insurmountable: 1) Joseph Smith cannot be trusted. He chose to turn a sin into a revelation rather than repent like David of old. He lied to his wife and the Church all the way up until 1844. I do not need faith in Joseph Smith to save my soul so I can easily let go of it. 2) The Gospel of personal worthiness taught in the church every week is very unsatisfying to me. I don’t believe that this is the gospel taught by Christ and the New Testament Apostles. I believe that it is a man-made gospel by Joseph Smith and subsequent leaders of the LDS Church.

I am now attending a non-denominational Christian Church and then attend Sacrament meeting with my wife and children. I love going to the Christian Church and also love seeing the people in my neighborhood at the LDS Ward. I will support my wife as she raises my 3 girls in the LDS church because I love her. I would much rather have them out of the church but since she is willing to let me believe and worship how I may- I must do the same.

I think certain personalities can handle all the church history issues and still believe and be active in the church. I am not one of those personalities. I want to believe to my core and I will not put my faith in ANY man. I will put my faith in the only One who will not fail me. I will worship and believe in Him and nothing has brought me greater Peace.

M3GD

[Anonymous]

Thank you for sharing that live-and-let-live perspective. The ultimate goal is really finding peace, developing a religious life of your own that works for you. Owning your beliefs consciously, and being comfortable with other people doing that in different ways than your experience is a functional way to live life.

A common reconciliation strategy is to supplement from other sources, pick and choose where you will gather your next spiritual meal. It sounds like you are doing that — attending two Churches for different reasons. Both reasons are great. Really. Go to another church for one reasons, go to the LDS Church to also worship with your family as a family, and stay connected with your neighbors. Sounds good to me.

I actually wish my wife was of this mindset, but she currently doesn’t want involvement with organized religion at all. I accept that too, but sometimes I wish she would find a community to supplement what she let go of. I would attend with her sometimes to be together with her.

[Anonymous]

Brian,

Thank you for your comments. I feel for you and your wife and hope that she can find peace and let go of any feelings of betrayal or anger. It is natural to feel betrayal and become despondent when you learn how foundational historical events did not happen the way they are portrayed. I am sure that your wife and I have shared similar feelings about polyandry and other topics that cause concern to many.

I did not seek these facts out at first. I was following the counsel of GBHinkly to watch the PBS special about “The Mormons” about 3 years ago. I had been a member for 40 years, served an honorable mission and had been temple married for 7 years. I never explored “anti-mormon” teachings or books- I had a solid “testimony” of the religion. I about fell off the couch when I heard about polyandry for the first time. I could not defend it and put it on the shelf for about 2 years before I began to look into it and whatever else the church was not telling me because it wasn’t considered “faith promoting.”

I have come to some conclusions that have helped me deal with the frustration, anger and bewilderment. Current leaders of the lds church inherited the church and all it’s doctrine and problems. It is not their fault nor the members’ fault that things happened the way they did. Like you Brian, they have been able to rationalize what JSmith did and can still believe in Mormonism. They really believe that this is God’s only true, restored church on the earth and they live accordingly. It’s not their fault- they are not trying to deceive me nor are the members of my ward/stake. Because they are believers in Mormonism and the doctrine (well, much of it I guess) they want to protect people from facts or teachings that could damage someone’s faith in the Mormon religion. That is to be expected and is a natural instinct by the leadership- you protect what you believe in.

I lay all the blame for this messed up religion at the feet of Joseph Smith. I believe he knew that he was making up revelations to justify his behavior and that he knew that he was lying to those around him about many things. He was a liar- that cannot be refuted. What does that mean? Some people can say, “well, we are all liars.” and they would be right. But we do not all claim to be prophets who speak for God- so his lying is much more serious and he deserves to be scrutinized. We are commanded to beware of anyone claiming to be a prophet- we get to make a rational judgement and decision. We do not have to have faith in them or anything they say because faith in people does not save our souls. I will take my faith in Christ and pursue a relationship with Him over rationalizing who and what J Smith was and the “teachings” that he developed. Give me Jesus.

This perspective has helped me let go of any anger towards the current leadership of the lds church. They did not create the doctrine or the practices. They just choose to believe in it because they have had some spiritual experiences that they attribute to meaning that the lds religion is the only right way to get to God. When you read a book that has some truth in it (like the BofM) and you feel good about what you have read- it is not a far stretch to believe that the book is “true”. Then when you are led down a path of logic that if you feel good about it then that is the spirit and that means this and this and this are also true- can you blame someone for going along with it? It seems to make sense. Unfortunately the premise for the entire argument is faulty.

I have found greater peace in hearing what I feel is the true Gospel of Jesus Christ every Sunday at my Christian Church. I find that my motivation to keep His commandments has changed for the better. I no longer am obedient to obtain worthiness so the spirit can be with me. I obey because I love Him. I obey because He gives me the peace I have long sought. I AM worthy only because HE is worthy and he lets all sincere believers have daily access to His worthiness through faith in Him. The works just follow and flow out of gratitude and love rather than the impossible quest for personal righteousness and worthiness. Christ is vicariously worthy for me through my brokenness and faith. Now that is some vicarious work that I can get into!!

I hope some or all of this information is helpful to you and/or your wife. Thanks again for your earlier reply.

M3GD

[Anonymous]

My3GirlsDad,

Thank you, you give me hope that someday I will be able to set aside the hurt and anger I still feel. I too put my trust in the Lord.

[Anonymous]

PeaceandJoy,

I am glad that you are still hopeful that you will be able to let go of the burdens of anger and frustration at the LDS church. It will happen when you are ready. I had a thought as I read your response. I don’t mean to be trite or appear insincere- but Christ asked His Father to forgive those who were crucifying Him because “they know not what they do”. I don’t think that any leaders or members of the LDS faith intentionally deceive you or me with any malicious intent at all. They BELIEVE in J Smith in spite of all they know and will go to their graves thinking that would be turning their backs on God if they denied it. I can’t fault them for that. Just like I don’t fault the Fundamentalists for what they believe. They have logical reasons to believe what they do.

Side note here…I find it interesting that when a Fundamentalist reads some truths in the BOFM and feels good about it, it strengthens their testimony of Warren Jeffs. And when when many LDS read the BofM it strengthens their testimony of Thomas Monson. Is it possible that these spiritual experiences we have while reading any truth are just personal witnesses that God loves us and is teaching us what we need at the time we need it?

Have a great weekend and I hope you find more Peace and Joy in Him that gives it to us all. I know I want more of it too.

M3GD

[Anonymous]

Quote:

The Gospel of personal worthiness taught in the church every week is very unsatisfying to me. I don’t believe that this is the gospel taught by Christ and the New Testament Apostles.

Hi, can you go into a little more detail on this aspect please, I’m interested to hear what you have to say.

By the way, is it possible to consider Joseph Smith a flawed prophet? He made mistakes by his own admission (116 pages anyone?), and I think the cleaned up version of church history doesn’t actually do the church any favors.

[Anonymous]

M3GD, As an admin, I have to ask this. Please don’t take offense.

Are you here to find ways to stay involved in the LDS Church, or just to share your peace in leaving – or to encouarge people here to leave, also?

If the first, great. Welcome.

If the second, fine. We all believe some people need to leave to find peace – especially at first. Just realize that this is not the primary goald of this site. To contribute constructively here, there has to be an element of finding peace and joy WITHIN the LDS Church (to some extent); it can’t be focused exclusively on peace and joy outside the Church.

If the third, please find somewhere else to do that. It is not in harmony with the mission of this site.

[Anonymous]

Ray,

My hope and intention is to share something that will lead people to a greater understanding of Grace, being Born Again, and justification by Faith in Christ. I believe people can develop a more healthy relationship with Jesus in the LDS church or outside of it. I do believe that it is easier to foster that relationship with Him outside of ANY organized religion- but that may not be practical or wise for many.

I don’t care to strive to tear people away from organized religion as much as bring them closer to understanding the pure, simple gospel of Jesus. Does that fit in with the mission of this website? I ask sincerely.

M3GD

[Anonymous]

Ray,

Another thought occurred to me- I am also here because I don’t have many outlets to talk about these issues. It is therapy for me to have my ideas challenged and to share what I am passionate about. So there are selfish reasons for being here too.

M3GD

[Anonymous]

Sounds great, M3GD – with one caveat:

Every one of your comments thus far is focused on how much better it is outside the LDS Church than in it. That’s not the case for me, and it’s not the case for MANY people, and it’s not the core purpose of this site. That’s why I asked my question.

I would LOVE to have you continue to comment here. I don’t want to drive you away. I mean that sincerely.

However, I am an admin, so I have to be aware of the site’s mission. If you can participate in a way that doesn’t say, exclusively or even primarily, that others need to leave the LDS Church to find the peace you found, I welcome you with open arms. If you can’t get past that belief – if you continue to say that grace and peace and worship and joy aren’t found in the LDS Church – that it is an alternative to the truth taught in the Bible – that there is a different “true way” that does not include the LDS Church – then I will have to ask you to leave.

I hope you understand that dilemma – and that it’s up to you to decide if you fit here. We rarely moderate at this site. We much prefer informed self-selection.

[Anonymous]

Ray,

I would love to stay and participate if you are okay with it. I want to be honest about how I feel and believe so you can also be honest with me if you think I am a hindrance or not to the mission of this site.

I do not believe J Smith was a prophet. I believe that he lied about his visions and revelations and many other things we do not need to get into. However, I also believe that God can do His work and save His people in spite of human frailty and deceit. I believe that wonderful leaders both past and present have turned the LDS church into a great organization that helps many- both temporally and spiritually. I believe that many people can come to know Christ in the LDS church as well as any other church in spite of the way the Gospel is taught there and sometimes because of it.

I would encourage most people to stay in whatever church they are in and not take the road that I have taken unless they are really suffering. If the teachings or a leader in their church cause them emotional and psychological damage- then I believe that it is better to get out and seek peace elsewhere.

You stated,

Quote:

if you continue to say that grace and peace and worship and joy aren’t found in the LDS Church – that it is an alternative to the truth taught in the Bible – that there is a different “true way” that does not include the LDS Church – then I will have to ask you to leave.

I do believe that a regular preaching of a “works” based or legalistic gospel does not effectively lead people to an understanding of grace and peace. It hinders it. However, I do know that people find peace and grace within the LDS church and can discard the personal opinions of even the highest authorities. There are plenty of independent thinkers like yourself and Brian that stay in the LSD church and still find it rewarding and still feel that they can grow there. There is a better Way for me at this point rather than full activity in the LDS church but I don’t believe it is the only way for all. God is Big and Great and can do His work with all of us wherever we are.

So I am a mixed bag. I have very strong opinions about the church’s founder and the evil that some early doctrines caused but I love and respect many current leaders and the members. I always have and always will respect anyone’s right to believe what the do- but I will not shy away from respectfully expressing a contrarian viewpoint.

Just wanted to be honest with you so you can make a better judgment about my staying here and participating.

M3GD

[Anonymous]

My3GirlsDad wrote:

I do believe that a regular preaching of a “works” based or legalistic gospel does not effectively lead people to an understanding of grace and peace. It hinders it.

Okay, my 1.5 cents…I am sincerely happy that you, M3GD, find peace with your new Christian congregation. But I’d like to point out that much of what you say about the “problems” with Mormonism (particularly Joseph Smith — which I probably mostly agree with, btw) are just as incredible and problematic in traditional Christianity, IMHO.

My own studies in Christian history leads me to disbelieve the historicity of the Bible almost as much as the BoM! Are there some good teachings in the Bible, as well as the BoM? Of course. Is it historically accurate. Most definitely not (IMO). The concept of a GodMan (The Jesus story in Christianity) has been around for at least 3 millennia, including Paganism and Greek mythology — many “heroes” having a mortal mother and a divine Father. (most of them before the time of Jesus). A good overall source for this is Joseph Campbell’s work.

The concept of the fallen man, and the necessity for grace and a “Savior” is also common before Jesus. It was an oft used tool by emporors and political leaders to coerce the uneducated masses to follow their demands, for their own power and control purposes.

So what does that all mean today? At least as far as I’m concerned, almost all all dogmatic religions have suspicious and dishonest beginnings. From an outsider’s, unbiased perspective, they all have magical, hard-to-believe stories. I find it a bit inconsistent to scoff at the Mormon story in lieu of the more “credible” half-man, half-God, die and come back to life, ascend to the heavens, all must accept his story to also make it to said heaven…story. Oh, and “its” foundation is an emporor who decided which “stories” to accept 300 years after the fact, compiles the “inerrant word of God” book, then massacred everybody who wouldn’t believe what he sold as the one and only truth!

Point is, we understand better today what and how all this happened, and our modern science can explain much of what was unexplainable in the past. We also have religious empires and traditions deeply steeped in mythology that transcends everything we think and do daily. It gives many great hope and purpose that they may not have otherwise.

So, as your acceptance and belief of traditional Christianity gives you great hope and peace today, I hope you’ll give others the same chance to believe and accept an equally magical story that gives them hope too. Personally, I see it all as part of a very powerful mythology of heroes that we humans love to play with — none better than another, but all important to those who believe.

[Anonymous]

Rix,

I have done some studying on the subject of the “Christ Story/Myth” being used throughout history. It was new information that I had not been aware of but it did not have the same effect on me as the LDS church history did. I do not doubt the existence of a Creator and his love for all of us. At present, I do not trust the information put forth by the atheist/agnostic community. I would have to spend more time studying and corroborating the information. I do not have a need to do that right now- maybe I will someday, even if just out of curiosity.

I guess you consider Christianity a religion. I do not. I am interested in a relationship with my Creator and have found peace in that relationship. Many religions can add some good to my goal of improving my relationship with Deity. I do not follow a man, a king, an emperor or a pharaoh. My relationship with God and Christ has increased my freedom and peace. I can see how many agnostics/atheist feel a great sense of freedom as well. I have had some dialog with individuals who feel that this belief helps them “live each day to the fullest because when we die- that is all there is. So enjoy each day and each person and find a way to live joyfully!!” I can see how this philosophy can feel right and good. I just don’t believe that it is the best way to go for me.

It does not bother me that the ideas of Grace and a Savior were existent before Jesus. I think the idea was actually given to the first man by God. He passed it down in the oral tradition and it spread- even if it got corrupted and misused by conniving leaders. It does not change my belief or diminish my desire to seek for a closer connection with the God I believe in.

[Anonymous]

My3GirlsDad wrote:

I do not doubt the existence of a Creator and his love for all of us. At present, I do not trust the information put forth by the atheist/agnostic community. I would have to spend more time studying and corroborating the information. I do not have a need to do that right now- maybe I will someday, even if just out of curiosity.

I think I understand your conviction to your belief, M3GD. I’ve known many “Christians” that are very devout and committed to their beliefs. As I said earlier, I really do think that is great that it gives them, and you, great peace and happiness.

The point I attempted to make earlier was not that it is “wrong,” but that it is just as incredible to believe than any other “religion,” or spiritual philosophy. The fastest growing “religion” today in the world is no religion. More people are leaving religions than ever before. I think there are many reasons for that, and I’m sure that religious members say that it is Satan’s power that is stealing our/their hearts.

Who knows for sure?!

My point is, from a modern, scientific perspective, most religions (including the Jesus story in all it’s versions) are hard to believe — one no more than another. Mormonism no more than EV Christianity. Or Buddhism, Or Hinduism. Etc.

But many today get great hope and strength from their beliefs, as “weird” as it seems to you…or me. I was trying to point out how bizarre the Jesus story seems. Certainly as bizzare as the Joseph story.

I personally like the Cinderella story…just haven’t found a church that worships her yet!

[Author]

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