I Bear My Unorthodox Testimony to my Teenage Daughter

[Anonymous]

Thought I would share….spoke to my daughter about two things — testimony and priesthood in action.

Testimony

Regarding the state of my testimony. I told her about when I first received a testimony when I was a young single adult. How I fasted for three solid days and got nothing, and then a year later felt moved to pray, asked if it was true and then got a huge spiritual overlay. She confided that the same thing happened to her when she was eight years old (well over five years ago). It was the same set of sensations. She elaborated on my description as it pertained to her own experience, and described it near perfectly. She said she got up from her prayer in tears.

I told her I would be very happy if she follows the LDS path and gets married in the Temple…but don’t push me to get a TR until I’m ready. And then I explained my current orientation toward the priesthood and how I use it benefit mankind…

Priesthood Orientation

I told her I don’t subscribe to the “served where placed until released” model of the church any longer. I disagree with Brad Wilcox who said service is a train track and not a ladder. It IS a ladder, but not one of position — it is one of co-missioning personal growth with organizational needs in the church wherever possible. This leads to personal progression, avoiding burnout, and energizing wards and programs — simultaneous personal and organizational progression is the upward ladder. Service is not a train track that leads to the next destination a busy church leader has set for you.

At one point she filled up with spirituality and tears when I shared how broken my heart is at the sometimes single-minded, de-individualized system of callings and lackadaisical releases, and my complete lack of interest in serving in the church for the time being. I contrasted that with the torrent of appreciation I receive from non-members outside the church for my community service, the opportunity to create, pursue ideas, fail, succeed, and lead others. And most of all, to help others in ways that leverage my skills and talents.

She asked me if I could teach Gospel Essentials again, and I confided that I can’t teach it anymore. She asked Why, and I said “because my ideas are too unorthodox” — I explained the story of Church333 and what happened to him when he shared various versions of the first vision, and how his SP released him. I explained I have no problem with the truth, and shared how multiple versions in no way compromises the truthfulness of his vision. But I have to be quiet in meetings or risk censure from the church on what I believe. This could upset people or limit my options to serve in the future.

And then I commented “the family seems to resent the service I give to a local non-profit now. That’s true isn’t i?”. She said “yes”. I said “If all that time and effort was placed in a church calling, would you resent it???”. She said “no”.

Then I explained that the priesthood is to be used to benefit mankind. And for that for this season, I feel the Lord directing my service to benefit the local community. I have outgrown what the church has to offer me in terms of personal growth for the next while. I commented that when she sees me serving outside the church, to consider that my priesthood service. Because that is what it means to me right now.

It does not have to be about the church all the time, and that her personal service throughout her life is just as valid in the church, or in non-church organizations that serve humankind as a whole.

[Note: She didn’t seem to approve of that statement, but in a way, I’m glad because it means I am addressing the oft-seen egocentricity of the church toward its own goals. Already, that has taken root in her heart, and it is not a belief I want to see in our own family culture. The next generation in my family may well have a much different of idea of what service means, and what it means to hold the priesthood. My hope is that my children let the church into their hearts in its rightful place, and don’t let it fill their entire space unawares or unconsciously permitted. ]

I intend to pick this up again at some other point with her.

I thought I would share, as learning to position the church in your life and family when you don’t have the commitment the church expects is an ongoing challenge for many people. And this is what I have to share about what I’m doing as a fumbling parent trying to StayLDS.

It entails risk — who knows where it will lead? What will my children become? I don’t know, but at least I feel comfortable with the approach I’m taking. And its liberating that I’m being authentic.

[Anonymous]

It sounds like a wonderful discussion, and I support 100% anything that opens avenues of service to a larger community of people outside the Church alone. I especially am happy that you are able to have these sorts of discussions with your daughter. She will benefit and grow from them, especially if you can continue to show her that you are not leaving the Church she loves so much or leaving her and your family.

[Anonymous]

Old-Timer wrote:

It sounds like a wonderful discussion, and I support 100% anything that opens avenues of service to a larger community of people outside the Church alone. I especially am happy that you are able to have these sorts of discussions with your daughter. She will benefit and grow from them, especially if you can continue to show her that you are not leaving the Church she loves so much or leaving her and your family.

Thanks Ray, you are a good friend. I mean that.

[Anonymous]

I’m a bit confused here.

Are you saying that your family, and church for that matter, doesn’t like it when you give service outside of the church?

[Anonymous]

Jazernorth wrote:

I’m a bit confused here.

Are you saying that your family, and church for that matter, doesn’t like it when you give service outside of the church?

I wouldn’t say they don’t like it, but they view as they would a hobby such as sports, or music. The family complained a bit when I said I was taking on the community responsibilities because they knew I would devote a lot of time to it — time that would not be available for them personally.

However, I knew that if that time was devoted to a church calling, they would not complain. My daughter confirmed it when she answered my question to that effect.

That is the egocentrism of the church at work and it has crept into the attitudes of my family. Listen carefully at church, and to the attitudes of many members when they talk about service. It often has to do with items that serve the church. Even community service projects can appear to be a hassle when promoted within the church because everyone is so busy with inward looking activities.

And you know, I’m not out to criticize them for that. Many people find the church as great source of happiness and lose themself in service there, happily. However, I draw the line at valuing church service over community service — or EXPECTING that people will give their disposable time to the church when the rest of the world can also use their talents.

I have yet to hear how a priesthood holder will react to the argument that my time for service in the church is restricted due to community pursuits. I honestly don’t know how local leaders would react.

[Anonymous]

SilentDawning wrote:

That is the egocentrism of the church at work and it has crept into the attitudes of my family. Listen carefully at church, and to the attitudes of many members when they talk about service. It often has to do with items that serve the church. Even community service projects can appear to be a hassle when promoted within the church because everyone is so busy with inward looking activities.

And you know, I’m not out to criticize them for that. Many people find the church as great source of happiness and lose themself in service there, happily. However, I draw the line at valuing church service over community service — or EXPECTING that people will give their disposable time to the church when the rest of the world can also use their talents.

I have yet to hear how a priesthood holder will react to the argument that my time for service in the church is restricted due to community pursuits. I honestly don’t know how local leaders would react.

I understand better. I read an article of a survey done on fathers who participated in community organizations and those who didn’t. Those who did had children who became well adjusted adults as compared to those who didn’t volunteer. They even discussed the amount of time the father was spending at the community organization. Those who took their children with them had better results. I tried to find the article, but after 20 minutes of google searching I gave up. I think I got it as a link from Meg Meeker or Dave Ramsey, though I couldn’t find the articles by searching their web pages either.

I understand the service only in the church mentality. I think the church is “trying” to change that with the justserve.org website. Though trying to change a culture is like banging your head against the wall. It is better to just walk past the wall. I don’t see the service should be in the church with the church or by the church changing anytime soon. Even on justserve.org many of the service projects are towards their own members needes and such, which isn’t a ‘bad’ thing, just kind of selfserving/centered.

I’m like/with you on service outside the church. My wife agrees with me, so I don’t have to fight the family tension like you do.

I would be interested in how your talk with your daughter turns out.

[Anonymous]

I didn’t know about Justserve.org. I looked it up. It is good that the church is trying to help people find service opportunities. They create a platform where organizations can post volunteer needs. Are they promoting this site to their own membership? (Us?) Or are they simply hoping the world will use the platform? For me, the site only has teeth in dispelling its egocentricity if it encourages its own membership to get involved with the projects posted there.

[Anonymous]

SilentDawning wrote:

I didn’t know about Justserve.org. I looked it up. It is good that the church is trying to help people find service opportunities. They create a platform where organizations can post volunteer needs. Are they promoting this site to their own membership? (Us?) Or are they simply hoping the world will use the platform? For me, the site only has teeth in dispelling its egocentricity if it encourages its own membership to get involved with the projects posted there.

I don’t know what their plan is for sure. I do know that they picked some pilot stakes to build the projects, which is why the projects are isolated to a couple of areas. I live in one of the stakes. All projects have to be approved by the stake justserve.org rep. So far all projects are members homes, church property, or something like that. There is also some committee (isn’t there always a committee) that conjures up projects, but again they haven’t ventured very far from their normal services. We’ll see what happens as they build up the site.

[Anonymous]

Quote:

So far all projects are members homes, church property, or something like that.

Let’s hope this is until they get it going. If all this is, is a way to get non-members to serve in the church, it only reinforces the perception of egocentricity. For now, I will give them the benefit of the doubt.

[Anonymous]

I agree, let’s hope it’s just getting started. There are no projects east of the Mississippi!

[Anonymous]

I don’t know anything about it, either, but if it was started and still runs only in areas with the heaviest Mormon concentrations, I can see how the overall vision could get a bit foggy and end up at the local level primarily serving members.

Lots of things run differently in the Mormon corridor than outside of it. I think we will see the purest implementations of it once it hits the real world.

[Anonymous]

DarkJedi wrote:

I agree, let’s hope it’s just getting started. There are no projects east of the Mississippi!

I thought you were the “project” east of the Mississippi! 😆 😆 😆

[Anonymous]

Very nice discussion with DD. I noticed in priesthood today that they were asking for volunteers to help some build a shead then help another family move and then set up for some women conference. The poor EQP said that he would be there for all three things and he just finished passing the bar this last week. I will be out of town so I can help and usually I try. There were one one or two who said that they would help. I had done a lot of service because I really enjoy doing it and I would try to take my kids.

SD, you sound like a great dad and it is wonderful that you have a open relationship with your kids and I hope that they appreciate it.

[Anonymous]

Roy wrote:

DarkJedi wrote:

I agree, let’s hope it’s just getting started. There are no projects east of the Mississippi!

I thought you were the “project” east of the Mississippi! 😆 😆 😆

🙂 Only for the “Rescue”! It has been awhile, so my name must be coming back to the top of the list again soon. On the other hand, I won’t ask the church for help – church help, I have found, is never free.

[Anonymous]

SilentDawning wrote:

I didn’t know about Justserve.org. I looked it up. It is good that the church is trying to help people find service opportunities. They create a platform where organizations can post volunteer needs. Are they promoting this site to their own membership? (Us?) Or are they simply hoping the world will use the platform? For me, the site only has teeth in dispelling its egocentricity if it encourages its own membership to get involved with the projects posted there.

Fwiw, we were told about justserve.org in stake conference recently. :thumbup:

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