I can’t anymore. I’m done with God.

[Anonymous]

The present post is from both Mrs. Reuben and myself.

Joni wrote:

At some point, I will be willing to pray again, specifically to ask God how to appease Him. I feel like there has got to be some sacrifice large and horrible enough that I can get on His good side again. Does he want me to tithe 20 percent? Attend the temple once a week even though I’m deeply troubled by the sexism? Give up sewing (which is both a hobby and a business for me)? Have another baby?

I think, after another few months of unemployment, I’ll be ready to give God whatever He wants. But I’m not quite there yet.

To be honest, this worries us. We’re concerned for your well-being – not so much because you might do something you’ll regret or is destructive (though there’s a small chance), but because your words suggest that you’re absolutely at the end of your rope.

Unemployment is hard. The thought of not being able to provide for your children is almost unbearable. You’re under an awful lot of stress. You need someone to talk to who can help you through it. Mrs. Reuben has found visiting a counselor to be very helpful when she’s at the end of her rope. Can you talk to your bishop about getting some help through LDS Social Services?

[Anonymous]

Joni:

((( hug )))

I am so sorry for your husband’s loss of employment.

There was a time when I tried to sacrifice for God. God had taken my children’s lives, my husband’s employment, all of our carefully saved investments, and my identity as a mother.

I thought long and hard about what I could sacrifice in order to get God’s attention, favor, and good will.

So much was put on that alter. My time, my talents, my tithes, my hopes and dreams were all carefully and artfully arranged onto that alter to God. I stood back and waited for Him to accept all that I put there. I was so afraid that I wildly looked around for anything else that I could add to the stack. Surely there had to be more than I could put on the alter. I added promises for better Family Home Evenings. Promissory notes for deeper scripture readings and memorization were piled up.

The alter was amazing to behold and nothing in my life changed.

All I learned was that God doesn’t like alters.

Horrible birth defects. Chronic pain. Loss of employment. Houses that do burn down. These things have nothing to do with God. Too often, God gets credit for all of the goodness in life and doesn’t get blamed for any of the bad. I’m not sure what God is in charge of. I haven’t figured it out yet.

What I do know: Nothing in my life is different whether I pay tithing or not. Nothing in our health has gotten better or worse whether I am active in prayer and/or church.

The ability to pray to a higher power makes me more centered in my life. The ability to forgive someone who has wronged me makes me a better person. A culture and society that focuses on forgiveness as part of a societal norm is a safer place for all. Tithing helps a church function, but not God.

Get help from the church. Use the resources available to you, but don’t build an alter and don’t look for ways to sacrifice. That doesn’t work on any level.

[Anonymous]

My favorite interpretation of Abraham being commanded to sacrifice Isaac is that he **failed** that test – that God wanted to see if he had let go completely of his ancestors’ practice of sacrificing their children to their gods. In this interpretation, God wanted Abraham to stop, say, “Whoa, wait a minute,” and push back. He didn’t. He still was fixated on making the ultimate sacrifice.

Have you seen a professional therapist in the past? I can’t remember if you have shared that here. Either way, I encourage you to do so. I think you need to work through your issues in person with someone who is trained in doing so. We love you and can try to support you, but we can’t provide that sort of help. There is NO shame in it; it isn’t part of finding comfort and understanding from someone who is trained in how to provide it.

You are in my prayers.

[Anonymous]

I agree with a lot that Amateur Parent said.

I find making sacrifices for things that bring me happiness, however, is worthwhile. But I don’t do it on the strength of promises made by people who have no stake in making the sacrifice, or who live in the same fog we do (and that’s most members).

So, I make sacrifices to get an education, sacrifices to help others get the skills they need to find employment. When I was asked to take callings, I was asked to be a SS President. It was presented as making sure each class had a teacher, and making adjustments etcetera. I knew that would not make me happy. To be thrown in the midst of people who don’t show commitment (ie don’t show up for their class), and have to make split second adjustments to enable and compensate for such inattention, was just not something that would make me happy. But when they asked me to lead a council on how to help improve the teaching quality, THAT was something I could sacrifice for, and be happy.

[Anonymous]

I am so sorry for your loss Joni. I have lost a job and it definitely put a cloud over me for the length of my unemployment. I would like to think that I could enjoy spending more time with the kids or completing tasks around the house. Unfortunately, that was not the case. My very presence in the house seemed to be a mark of failure.

I see the personal experiences shared in this thread and I am reminded ever so powerfully that life does not go according to plan. I feel a kinship to this isle of misfit toys and the paths that bring us here.

I too, sit with you.

[Anonymous]

Look at all these dung hill buddies. I love it.

[img]http://magazine.art21.org/wp-content/uploads/2008/06/all_misfit_toys_welcome_here-1.jpg[/img]

[Anonymous]

I have been thinking about your pain Joni. I still hold on to looking at God a bit like a parent/child relationship – and NOT an angry parent. I think a mature parent that has a kid that yells out, “I hate you” will realize the child is just overwhelmed. So when I get pissed at God, I no longer feel any remorse fro doing so.

Not sure that helps at all, but I do hope things improve quickly.

[Anonymous]

I’ve been to LDS Family Services before and I was seriously unimpressed. I have been seeing a good, non LDS therapist but that’s like the second thing we cut when DH lost his job (after the Netflix subscription). Which, who knows, maybe that’s exactly what God had in mind.

Thanks all for your support. I especially like what Reuben said about formulas, that makes a lot of sense.

[Anonymous]

Minyan Man wrote:

I recently saw an old movie called: Oh God. With George Burns (God) & John Denver (an ordinary man). The premise of the movie is that God appears to an ordinary man to deliver a message to the rest of the world.

One of my all time favorites. That movie is a gold mine of excellent quotes to make you think about the real nature of things.

[Anonymous]

Joni – I woke up thinking about you this morning, especially the God doesn’t love you part. The thought that came to me is “Later Dude”. I know that may sound sacrilegious to some, but if we take scripture as verbatim, this being we call God isn’t always a Prince. From Adam and Eve down, he has thrown temper tantrums, cursed people, blown up cities, and left people to drown.

In religion we love to paint a God who loves us. Whoever we are, whatever we are doing. One of my favorite oxymorons comes when we (Christians) say God or Jesus loves everyone. Then the disclaimer comes behind it – but since you weren’t baptized into my religion, since you haven’t been saved as such and such a religion states, in our church if you aren’t obedient (and that list can get really wonky as to importance of what to obey) – then you won’t be saved, blessed, what ever.

God and I have a personal relationship. There are beings that are Divine Deity to me. However they don’t match other’s. I don’t know if I am the one out of step or they are or we all are.

But plenty of people have looked for God and can’t find him. Other’s have felt direct abandonment. And other’s feel like He’s right there.

You are still alive, capable, valuable with or without his approval stamp. Share your talents, look for life’s beauty, be life’s beauty. You are strong. Honor that. Let God have some space. It’s okay. Go ahead love yourself enough for both you and God.

[Anonymous]

I’m sorry Joni.

I don’t know that my comments regarding god would be welcome here,or this next comment but the mods can remove it if they like: please don’t pay tithing on your unemployment checks. I don’t know what church protocol is, nor do I care, but your family needs that money right now and if the whole gospel of prosperity formula actually worked the real miracle would have been your husband not losing his jobs.

Please take care of yourself and your family.

[Anonymous]

Thanks for the supportive comment, SBR.

Good to see you here.

[Anonymous]

Joni wrote:

I’ve mentioned before that I’ve had personal revelation, in the celestial room of the temple, that God doesn’t love me. (It’s okay that you don’t believe me. My husband doesn’t believe me, either. But I know what I experienced and I can’t deny it.)

Well, last Friday God saw fit to take my husband’s job away. Again. For the fifth time (so far) since 2008. Despite us paying a full tithe this entire time. Despite every member of my family, including innocent children, praying for this exact thing NOT to happen.

This goes beyond God merely being indifferent. One layoff, you can chalk up to the bad economy. Two is supremely bad luck. But five? This sure feels a lot like God ACTIVELY HATING me and my family.

I find that I simply can’t pray anymore. I have nothing more to say to Him. It feels a lot like prayer is how we tell God what He should take away from us next. (For the last several years, my children’s prayers have also included the phrase ‘please bless that our house won’t catch fire.’ I fully expect that God will burn our house down any day now, just to teach me a lesson.)

This also puts all of the Church’s many many demands into perspective. They don’t come out and say it, but it’s at least IMPLIED that if you pay tithing/wear ugly underwear/serve in callings whether you like it or not/sit through boring meeting after boring , God will at least like you better than if you DON’T do those things. But I’ve found that there is nothing I can do to earn the least bit of favor in His eyes, so what the heck is my motivation for doing all these things?

I did tell my husband that I’m not praying anymore and to be fair, he hasn’t asked me to say the dinner prayers or anything. (But I’m fully prepared to make a hypocrite of myself, to avoid making a scene in front of the kids.) But I somehow have to go through the rest of my life like this and I’ve probably got forty years left.

One more thing that really galls me? God took away my husband’s job, despite hundreds of prayers to the contrary – yet He demands that we pay tithing on our unemployment checks. Ugh. 👿

Everyone’s situation is different. However, take it from someone who’s been struggling themselves with the Gospel: it will get better. Ask for help from the savior, and he will help you! It may not be right away and you may not see it right away; but he can help you. However, I totally understand where you’re coming from and at least you are being honest and upfront about it with your husband.

Something I’ve been told when I discuss my struggles is to serve others. Because when you are serving others, you are serving God. And regarding the “silly” underwear, I really honestly don’t think God cares THAT MUCH. I mean he does a little. But remember, he KNOWS what’s going on with us personally. As long as you are trying your best, he will take it. That’s really all he wants. Is for you to try try your best.

Hope things get better

[Anonymous]

According to my husband, yes, we are expected to and we will be paying tithing on unemployment. (He didn’t say “we can’t afford not to” but I wouldn’t be surprised if he was thinking it.)

So God has taken my husband’s job away, AGAIN. And we are receiving unemployment checks, a fraction of his previous income, and not some sort of gift. And God has the gall to stand there with His hand outstretched, demanding His cut. I can honestly not think of one nice word to say to or about God in this situation.

[Anonymous]

One time when I was fairly young in the church and fairly young in years there was a terrible car accident where I lived. It was a Friday night teen drinking party and five teenagers in a car were killed when the speeding drunk teen driver lost control, hit a tree, and rolled down an embankment flipping several times. One of those kids was the daughter of an inactive member whom I had never met. The EQP called me that Saturday and asked if I would go with him to visit this member at the request of the bishop. The lady, and single mother with the daughter being an only child, was obviously grief stricken. Over and over again she wailed (literally) “Why did God take my baby from me?” and similar statements. Truth is God had nothing to do with it. Granted her judgement was impaired, but her daughter chose to get into a car with a drunk driver and the consequence was horrible. I’m not arguing that the girl chose to die, I’m sure she didn’t. But God did not put her in that situation.

Joni, you’re blaming God for something that men did. Again, I spent a long time being mad at God in a very similar situation. You can be mad at Him all you want and honestly I don’t really care, I’m not defending God and his lack of intervention. I often wonder how we’re supposed to believe we’re loved by God when awful things happen, and I can’t figure out how anyone can believe in the God of the Lost Car Keys. I would not have been a good Jew during or after the Holocaust. I honestly don’t believe God loves us individually or knows us each by name and all the other stuff you might here in F&TM or even at GC. I do believe God cares about us (as in all humans) collectively, and I do believe that in some way I don’t understand Jesus Christ understands each and every sin and temptation ever known to man – and I include in that LGBT, suicide, homicide, you name it. If Matthew can be believed “And about three o’clock Jesus cried with a loud voice, “Eli, Eli, lema sabachthani?” that is, “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?” (27:46, NRSV). Even if Christ does not understand all sins and temptations and did not “descend below it all” it is clear he understood being forsaken by God, his father and in his case God did have a hand in what was happening.

[Author]

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