I can’t stay…I can’t go

[Anonymous]

Just when I think my faith crisis is starting to get to a place of peace, it all seems to get worse.

My fiancé is not a member of the church. I have two children, 10 and 7, who were born into the church. I was active up until about 4 months ago. My kids’ mother is a TBM. My struggle wouldn’t be so hard if I didn’t have kids in the picture. My son primarily lives with me, my daughter primarily lives with her mother (long story how it ended up that way).

My son is very intelligent and also quite prone to anxiety/guilt/shame/fear. As my fiancé put it, “He knows more about what will get him in trouble at church than he does about what is going on at school.” He is so susceptible to the fear of doing the wrong thing. His mother is very rigid and prone to shame in her approach. Both of my kids do not like being at their mother’s house. It is getting harder and harder for them to see her. My daughter begs me to let her live with me every time I take her back to her mother’s house. As she put it when staying at my house, “I want to live here, because everyone is happy here.”

It is breaking my heart. I am powerless to protect my daughter and son from the rigidity of their mother (and the church). Damage control and post-processing seem to be the only options I have. My kids go to church every other weekend at their mother’s house. I have not taken them in 4 months. A lot of that is because of moving and big changes happening. My son kept asking when we were going back to church, and I said we would go back soon.

My 8-yr-old nephew was baptized last Saturday. As part of my first step in going back to church (at least on the weekends my kids are with me), we went to his baptism. My fiancé came also. This was her first time at any Mormon service. When we first walked into the church, there were lots of people there (5 child of record baptisms at once). She later told me that she was glad to be there, because everyone was friendly. There was a sense of community.

Then we all sit down for the talks. As the talks commence and I hear what is being said, I begin to cringe. So dogmatic. So polyanna. It was all standard primary fare. Nothing out of the ordinary was said. But it was a reminder just how empty I feel at church when others speak. And later, after we left, my fiancé said, “Once they started talking, I felt like I had just walked into a brainwashed cult.” She used to be interested in the church. She went out of her way to educate herself on it and was considering joining it. But that changed once she saw how my family shamed me for getting engaged to a non-LDS person. The drama that ensued was ridiculous. My sister was indoctrinating my son (when he was over at her house playing with his cousins) about how he was not going to live with me after death if I stopped going to church. Other family members would say things, too. My son would come to me every time after playing with his cousins and he would be in tears. He would be so scared of losing me. He would be so scared of doing the wrong thing. He started caretaking for my own spiritual welfare. His anxiety went through the roof.

Needless to say, this pissed my fiancé off. She became very protective of his well-being. She couldn’t stand to watch him suffer with so much fear and shame. And she has watched how much I have agonized, over and over, about what kind of relationship to have with the church. I am prone to scrupulosity, so my faith crisis can truly be painful and fear-based. I can’t stop worrying about my own salvation. I can’t shake the feeling that I am being an unfaithful person.

I can’t let the church go, but I can’t stay in it. I can’t stand watching how kids are trained to think and speak and act in the same ways at church. It is so hard to sift through all that is said at church and find something that feels genuine and uplifting. I feel like I am at church with a bunch of parrots. I feel so protective of my children. I can’t expose them to regular attendance at a church that will only fuel the fires of guilt and fear. I can’t expose them to such close-minded thinking that strips them of a desire to learn about other ways of life, other truths, other forms of spirituality, other ways of thinking. It has been so painful for me to transition authority to myself, and my son is already fearing so much of losing favor from God and people in his life. His mother fuels this fire (he is afraid to be honest with her about any of his feelings). The reason he asks if we are going to church is because his mother asks every time she sees him whether or not he went to church.

Yet, there is so much I love about the church. Or at least loved. Some of what I loved is still there. Much of what I loved feels so frustrating now. And I still feel afraid. I have told my son I will not stop him from going to church. This last Sunday, I told him I would take him. He said he wanted to go…until the day actually came. He said he didn’t want to go. So we didn’t go. I felt a sense of relief. I felt relief that I would not have to do damage control for what may have been said at church that triggered his anxiety.

But now what? His mother is chastising me about not taking them to church, saying that “They are in their formative years and this is a very crucial time for them to learn important spiritual things.” All I hear is, “They are at a crucial age when they can easily be told how to think and what they should believe, before they can start thinking for themselves”. I feel like I must protect them from the rigidity and shame. But I also feel so afraid of not taking them to church. My fiancé and I want to bring spirituality in their lives. We want to teach them to seek truth from all areas of life. We want to read from the Bible, and the Book of Mormon, and also other things, like Buddhism and uplifting literature, etc. Taking them to church feels so counter to this. But I also worry that I am robbing them of something if I don’t remain active. What if this really is God’s church? Am I taking them away from exaltation? Am I going to be held accountable by God for not taking them to church? Do I have to force them to go?

My fiancé used to be much more open to being supportive of us going to church. She will still respect whatever I choose. But after having actual experiences with LDS people and church practices, her protective nature is kicking in. There are few things she feels more passionate about than protecting children from harmful emotional and psychological experiences. I feel the same way.

I see more crises coming down the road. My son will probably not be able to resist the pressure to get the priesthood at 12, even though I don’t want him to receive it until he decides for himself. I feel like he is going to be robbed of that decision for himself, because the fear will take front and center stage. And if he didn’t choose it, he would have hell to pay in listening to his mother bad mouth me and trigger his guilt.

I feel so trapped. My own mother has broken down in tears, telling me that she is worried about me, but that it is my business what I do with my life, but that she cannot stand idly by while I take my son with me. And my own anxiety keeps kicking in so strong that I am having difficulty connecting to God. Every time I go to pray, I am more afraid of getting some shame-based answer (like Repent and go back to church and stop straying), which blocks my faith to connect. I know God would not communicate that way. I know God is not shame-based. But my scrupulosity is really kicking in. It is like I can’t allow myself to exercise faith as long as I am disobeying church authorities.

Any words of wisdom will be helpful today.

(edit- I accidentally said I would stop my son from going to church. I corrected the typo to say that I would NOT stop him from going to church)

[Anonymous]

I think you already know what you need to know. Yes, when you are in church there are a bunch of parrots there and yes, those parrots repeat statements that cause fear over and over again. I understand your concern. You also understand some of the core principles of the gospel, one of which is that God is not a God of fear. Among the parrots, most of who give no thought to what they repeat, you are in the minority.

Advice? It’s tough. These things are what kept me from church for 10 years. When I went back yesterday, literally nothing had changed except a few faces. I can’t decide what to do for you and what works for me and my kids might not work for you. Maybe you could try only going to sacrament meeting and skipping Primary, at least for a while. Maybe you could expose yourself, your kids, and your fiance to some other churches sometimes – it can be an eye and mind opening experience. Maybe you can take some time and ponder the differences between the gospel and the church – it is difficult, but sometimes very necessary. But the bottom line is that you have to do what you think is right. I believe God will never fault anyone who is doing what he or she believes is the right thing to do.

[Anonymous]

Do what (you feel) is right, let the consequence follow.

Live your life according to the dictates of your own conscience.

I encourage everyone who can find a way to do so positively, to stay involved in the LDS Church, but there are times for some people when attending church is the wrong thing to do, and this might be one of those times. I can’t make that call for anyone else, but it sounds like it might be better for you at this point to try to find another environment that will nourish you.

I love the idea that everyone needs a responsibility, a friend AND nourishment from the good word of God. If you aren’t getting those things, and especially if you are getting the opposite, I am positive God understands.

[Anonymous]

Hi thalmar. Ouch. Yes it is one of the most hard situations anyone can come across. You have touched upon my biggest gripe that I could have about any institution, culture or religion anywhere.

A bit of a background drop. Although there where a number of serious things with my raising. You have summed up the grist of it. I see so much of myself both with your boy and the situation you face. It’s very complicated, but if you do not act to protect the welfare of the boy then serious physiological issues can result if they haven’t already. I speak from my own experience as well as watching others go through similar things. There are some things you definitely need to do. But how to negotiate those things and how to approach them are best left to a good qualified psychologist. If it is at all possible please seek help, if not for self in your own situation them for your son. It does not pass by or get better with age, it gets worse. Usually, a lot worse as you get older in that type if environment.

Bargaining is usually off the table with dogmatics types. Including those brought up in such systems seriously. So the best you can do is extend to be polite and help while studying the effects of the system and talking actively with those who are good psychologist who have studied and treated those in such systems.

Empirical meta data based evidence helps tremendously to know what is a rational fear and what it unfounded. And how to think positively about things and when it isn’t possible in a certain system(usually fundamentalism).

There is a lot of good it can provide. But it also can be greatly overshadowed by fundamentalism and dogma like a large New York building over houses for many children and adults alike.

Please seek expert help if you can. Especially for your kid. Left untreated it will wreck havoc over his life and yours. There is hope, but it requires to think in a layover manor and to reject dogmatic negative thinking of oneself and obedience to gain favor or love or redemption. Do what is right, let fruit be your guide rather then devotion or obedience. Let the chips fall where they may with that. It isn’t easy, but it is worth it. At least you can begin to live with yourself as well as your child. Immediate advice would be to be supportive of him in what he wants to do. His needs and wants in his life come first before the parents wants for him(unless it can be proven to be destructive).

The second thing is provide him with a bunch of information and experiences and pints of view that he can pick one and identify with that he can handle, no more then he can handle though.

Pick up a few article on psychology and development of kids in the interim.

Good luck and take care. I pray he doesn’t experience what I did or get as bad. Treat it as soon as possible please. But remember there is still time to act and hope still exist. With the right help can help to achieve a balance of life and self. For you and your son.

Yes I do agree in your fiancé in that I do deplore rote mesmerization, dogma and rote pronouncements in all there forms in and out of church and politics and culture. Prayers are with you and your family. Take care.

P.S. Rays comment was added while I was typing and I agree with, there may or may not be a middle ground depending on the exact nature of the situation. The best thing I ever did was take time away from the church to find out who I am and what I do believe independent of it. As well as develop independent self esteem and undo codependency and become an adult of god. I came back but in my own terms as long as I’m not correlated or forced into doing or believing things I am not comfortable that have been destructive. I am at church attending again, trying to serve others. Sometimes though you can’t get better in the situation you are exposing yourself and your son to. It just doesn’t work that way.

[Anonymous]

Peace

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[Anonymous]

thalmar wrote:

But now what? His mother is chastising me about not taking them to church, saying that “They are in their formative years and this is a very crucial time for them to learn important spiritual things.”

My only thought ($.02) is that maybe your kids’ anxiety will be ratcheted down if you do take them to church, and then come home and be yourself. If you don’t believe families are going to be ripped apart in the eternities by a nit-picking God, you could find a way to say so. But it might carry more weight if you’ve been with them, “boots on the ground,” at church. Maybe your son in particular would be empowered by seeing you there, taking the good from it, finding meaning wherever you do, serving, etc., but also learning as you go along that it’s okay to have thoughts and beliefs that don’t match the Primary sharing time bullet points word for word. That is the most important spiritual thing I’ve learned these last two years, and do I ever wish I had learned it young.

Good luck.

[Anonymous]

Hi thalmar,

I recognize a lot of things that you have written about from my own experiences. I’m sorry that everything is so complicated and disheartening for you. I find there are no right or wrong answers to such things, there are just difficult choices to make. Often in such complicated circumstances there are always positive and negatives to each choice. It is up to you to decide which group of positives and negatives will give the best possible outcome for you and your family for now and/or for the future.

I’m probably not the best person to give advice because it usually goes against the grain. I can’t suggest to you what YOU should do, but I can tell you what I would do in your situation. In fear of being unpopular, here goes: I would take a break. Many people have advised me not to do this, even on this site, but the situation for me would make me feel it is best to take a break from church and extended family so I can focus on the health and happiness of my immediate family and myself. It would not be about taking a break from God or my beliefs and values, but the environment and pressure of church and extended family. I feel that we depend too much on church in our lives. Some people allow church life to consume them. The church (the organization) should be a part of our life, yes, but not our whole life. The church teaches but we are the ones who live it. This is especially so when we realise our values and beliefs are our own, not the church’s. If we take a break, we don’t loose who we are; a break enables us to find our path again. The church itself uses this technique. Members are put on probation when they have hit a crisis point with breaking their covenants. Probation isn’t a punishment, though some would have you believe so, but it is a break from contributing and acting in the church so you can have the time and space you need to get back on your path again. People take a break from callings because they need to concentrate on their health. One time I had to take a ‘break’ from church for about nine months simply because where I lived took me an 8 hour round trip. Technically I would have been classed as inactive, but I wasn’t. I know of some people taking a break from their ward and going somewhere else for a little while.

The way I’ve always seen it is by asking myself – what is the most important responsibility I have, not just in the church, but in life? (God judges us on our life choices, not our church choices.) To me, the most important thing, is the health and happiness of my family and myself. So my priority is taking care of my family and myself. If I can’t do that properly because of the pressure and complications I’m facing at church and with extended family, I need to set aside those things. Not forever, but until I feel ready to deal with them. This too is a power that we have been given – to govern our own lives. My motherhood is more important than my ‘church-hood’. In fact, I believe by doing all that I can, putting the health and happiness of my family first, I am living the gospel and I am fulfilling the most important responsibility I have. We might be scared to act, to change, in fear that we will loose something, but remember that we are also accountable (to God and our family) if we don’t act, don’t change to better situations.

I have been in your type of situation and I must say that whatever you choose there will be positive consequences mixed with negative consequences. It’s not about trying to avoid the negative consequences, you can’t (and it is often the negative consequences that stop us from choosing) but its about deciding wisely which negative consequences that you can live with. In my story, I saved my second family (I remarried and had 2 more kids) from a life of negative encounters with my ex-husband, but I had to sacrifice by living in a different country than my oldest two children. They have always had a choice to live with me, but have never chosen to. It’s bitter-sweet, life has never been so good for me and my family, but I would have liked to have shared it with my other two children. Every once in a while I regret not being with my eldest two, I’ve felt so guilty over the years, sometimes I’ve even felt like God was punishing me, but if you asked me if it was the best decision for my second family, you betcha! .

I hope some of this will give you some comfort

Cheers

[Author]

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