I don’t wanna be a mormon anymore.

[Anonymous]

This post was facilitated by Katspur’s intro post and is most certainly a vent and not representative of my wise self. I guess I am wondering if anyone else feels as I do.

Now, before I continue, I may start sounding like a whiney teen. Be that as it may. I am not sure if I am completely grown up anyway.

So, i have this crisis of faith. I battle and search doctrine. I come to terms with the core of it. But what remains is this lingering feeling that I am not sure I want to be mormon anymore. I mean being in a ward seems to define ones life. It tells you who your friends are. It divides neighborhoods with imaginary lines. If you change ward boundaries, you friends replace you with the new people they are “assigned” to fellowship with.

I am tired of the routine. The “task” oriented service, instead of people oriented service. (not lumping all into this boat) I am sick of VTing visits that all feel like ground hog day — the same canned thing every time or HTer who pretend to care but who don’t actually remember what you said two minutes ago. My schedule is driven by the stake calendar and the scout meetings and the choir practice.

Sometimes I feel like I want to explode!! Bust free!! Do something exciting or different or stretching. I think I have gotten to a point where service in the church doesn’t excite me anymore. I don’t know if I do any good really. I don’t know if my participation would be missed if I wasn’t there. Sometimes I feel like I am dying on the vine only no one knows…..or cares. If I told someone, I am most confident a stern lecture would follow. I know, cuz I have given myself the canned lecture in my mind.

I don’t wanna be a mormon anymore! Don’t wanna do the routine for the rest of my life! Wanna get out of Utah. Wanna explore the world and the meet the people and listen to them and soak them in!

I don’t know. Perhaps I have PMS or really need a vacation. Or maybe…..just a maybe the church does have its limits. How does one learn to fly in a situation like this?

[Anonymous]

All I can say is, “There is some truth to that.”

However, Valoel might say something like, why let yourself be defined by that vision of Mormonism? What stands between you (or me) and the possibility of breaking free? Are we in reality still bound to old status symbols? Do we still crave the same false validation and sense of worth? Are we still addicted to the buzz we get from being good, praiseworthy performers? Do we still find it necessary not to miss even a week of church? With all we have learned and grown and seen, and from where we now stand, whose fault is it that we are still not free?

I know that if I am going to change Mormonism, all I can really do is change it for myself. Make it into what I feel it should be. Say, “this is my church too, ” and proceed to be a Tom Haws Mormon the best way I know heaven directs me to.

[Anonymous]

Wow. Didn’t you just hit the ball out of the ball park, tom! I knew someone would say that right thing.

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why let yourself be defined by that vision of Mormonism?

Stupid fear.

Quote:

What stands between you (or me) and the possibility of breaking free?

I don’t know exactly. I ask myself this question all the time.

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Are we in reality still bound to old status symbols?

a very quiet and embarrassed…. Yes.

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Do we still crave the same false validation and sense of worth?

Another very quiet and embarrassed …. yes.

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Are we still addicted to the buzz we get from being good, praiseworthy performers?

…..and another one too as my head falls into my hands and I say “Yes” with exasperation.

Quote:

With all we have learned and grown and seen, and from where we now stand, whose fault is it that we are still not free?

There is a simple little book….don’t know if you are familiar….called “The Secret Life of Bees”. In one scene, the young heroine of the story looks at the mason jar she used to capture a honey bee. She feels guilty that she has trapped the bee and decides to set it free. She opens the lid and lays the jar to the side and waits for the bee to fly free. But the bee won’t go.

I sometimes feel like the bee.

[Anonymous]

You probably need to know that I’m a life-long skeptic (well, since 4 or 5, anyway) born in the Church, the end product of nearly countless generations of polygamy.

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I mean being in a ward seems to define ones life. It tells you who your friends are.

Might try staying LDS by getting some friends that aren’t in the ward and that stay friends regardless. By becoming a Naturist, I made many friends, both here in UT and on the Internet, both Mormon and not, who stay friends. Do you have interests that would work that way? Bobbin Lace? Writing?

Quote:

HTer who pretend to care but who don’t actually remember what you said two minutes ago.

Having the right Ward Teachers is a key. I’ve had the same Ward Teachers for the last twenty years plus (although it’s like the ax that came across the plains in ’47: had to change the handle a couple of times — and the head once). But they are also my friends and we never do the lesson — talk about local and family history and stuff. Except, they got re-assigned in June and I haven’t seen any replacements yet (and tomorrow is the last day of the month) and I just don’t know how that’s going to work out. But, even though I attend very rarely, I like to see Lloyd and Kent every month, I can tell you.

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Wanna get out of Utah. Wanna explore the world and the meet the people and listen to them and soak them in!

I think that’s a key to Staying LDS for many. My church activity is proportional to the square root of my distance from the Center Stakes of Zion. Branches are a lot more fun than wards. Even some “good” Mormons make it a point to stay away from Utah. My little brother turned down chances to teach at BYU. Preferred to teach in the East. Closest he could stand was New Mexico.

Quote:

Perhaps I have PMS or really need a vacation.

Maybe take a little vacation from being some active. Maybe you need a three month staycation where you just go inactive or less active. Don’t have to turn into a drinking, smoking, swearing Jack Mormon, but just take a break.

Naturally,

R.O.

[Anonymous]

Amen to what the others said, but in this way:

Quote:

Sometimes I feel like I want to explode!! Bust free!! Do something exciting or different or stretching.

Model Pres. Kimball and, “Do it.”

Take a break, if necessary, and find yourself apart from the Church. Did you see “The Runaway Bride”? Find out how you like your own eggs cooked – then figure out how to share your new recipe(s) with others one small bite at a time – all the while not minding that they like their eggs differently.

[Anonymous]

Hi Poppyseed, I have really enjoyed actually reading some of your posts and are the type of person I would love to meet and have lunch with. I have had so many reasons to leave the church so many times, but don’t because it was based on peoples bad behavior or hang-ups. If I ever leave the church, it would because God would tell me to leave (and he did once for two years-read my intro). Something that helped me with this issue was a thought by Brigham Young. So, I will share it here:

Personal Responsibility

By Brigham Young

In the early history of the Church, many converts who joined with the body of the Saints expected to find a spiritual utopia. Frustrated at finding that the communities of the Saints were populated with people, who in many instances were no better than themselves, some of these immigrants voiced their disillusionment and left the Church. These people had anticipated a Zion in which they could bask in spiritual light day and night. Longing to be nurtured by revelations, miracles, and manifestations of divine power, they sought heaven on earth. They did not realize that spiritual maturity often comes slowly and that many, like themselves, find the courage and strength necessary to overcome their own weaknesses. Of such people, Brigham Young would inquire, “What hinders you from enjoying all that you anticipated?” If you are not as you desire to be, if you do not feel the prompting or influence of the Holy Ghost to the extent that you think you should, where is the fault to be found? Responding to his own question, President Young explained that it was a mistake to suppose that others could prevent you from enjoying the light of God in your soul. “All hell,” he said, “cannot hinder me from enjoying Zion in my own heart, if my individual will yields obedience to the requirements and mandates of my Heavenly Master “ (JD 1:311). Brigham Young declared himself to be the only man in heaven, on earth, or in hell responsible for Brigham Young. Further he held that the same doctrine applied equally to every Latter-day Saint. Salvation is an individual matter. “I am the only person that can accept Christ and save myself,” said Brigham. We cannot pin our faith on someone else’s sleeve. No one can accept or reject salvation in behalf of another. It is not the object or design of the gospel to create spiritual dependence. Of those who constantly suspend their own judgment to lean upon others they suppose to have greater wisdom than themselves, President Young said that they ‘will never be capable of entering into the celestial glory to be crowned as they anticipate; they will never be capable of becoming gods.” They cannot rule themselves, let alone give direction to others. Spiritually, he likened them to children who need direction in every trifle. “They cannot control themselves in th least, but James, Peter, or somebody else must control them. They can never become gods, nor be crowned as rulers with glory, immortality, and eternal lives.” Who will?” asked President Young, “those who are valiant and inspired with the true independence of heave, who will go forth boldly in the service of their God, leaving others to do as they please, determined to do right, though all mankind besides should take the opposite course.” Ibid, p.312) (taken from SEEKING THE SPIRIT by Joseph Fielding McConkie)

[Anonymous]

bridget_night wrote:

We cannot pin our faith on someone else’s sleeve. No one can accept or reject salvation in behalf of another. It is not the object or design of the gospel to create spiritual dependence.

The above quote was not bridget but the person she was quoting.

This is interesting because of the dilemma set up by the church/culture/community: the gospel isn’t set up to create dependence but the church does create a type of codependency. Being required to answer specific TR questions creates coercive obedience, unquestioning belief in church leaders creates coercive action, generational influence creates coercive guilt, victorian-style close-mindedness creates coercive shame.

In a system wherein “achieving” status through obedience is applauded and praised, the one discovers how to avoid guilt and shame and achieve praise and approval. But this is accomplished at the expense of the one.

Individual expression is suppressed, seeking for approval is all-encompassing, leaving the one completely codependent on the “whole”.

But the “whole” cannot give approval and praise enough for the one, so the one strives harder, yet still is left unsatisfied. So the one internalizes this, shaming oneself, guilting oneself thus never being “good enough” and this cycle continues until the one is left feeling mostly guilt, shame and worthlessness.

It’s easy to say, “Just don’t think that. Christ can make you feel better. It’s ok, you’ll “get it” someday.” But if the system is set up in such a way that ALL approval, validation, and praise come from external sources, turning to the internal is fruitless: all that’s left internally is the self-talk of guilt, shame, and worthlessness.

Somehow, some way, this cycle must be broken. I get the sentiments of the OP. At times, it feels like the only way to break this cycle is to break away from the “whole”. Whatever it is, one does need to break away, whatever that means to the one, and find the journey wherein the internal is the source of love, acceptance, and self-worth.

imho

[Anonymous]

Swimordie is right that the structure is self-reinforcing, but all stable structures are. I still like to “rage against the machine” sometimes, and yet I know it’s futile and that the machine works as designed.

[Anonymous]

swimordie wrote:

Somehow, some way, this cycle must be broken. I get the sentiments of the OP. At times, it feels like the only way to break this cycle is to break away from the “whole”. Whatever it is, one does need to break away, whatever that means to the one, and find the journey wherein the internal is the source of love, acceptance, and self-worth.

imho

Wow, that about says it all! I don’t think Mormonism invented this codependent culture, but they sure have perfected it. The Catch-22 is that for many, leaving the only support system we BIC folks have known leads to loneliness and despair (because we have been taught to need that external validation). Yet if it can be done, life with an internal compass is so much more joyful and peaceful.

Many years ago I was forced to leave. I didn’t know what to do after getting out of bed in the morning. My entire purpose of life, and each day’s activity, was dictated by the church. I literally went to live in the wilderness hoping that nature would heal my soul.

It did.

I found that the only people I craved being with were my family — not because of some afterlife togetherness paradigm, but because there was a natural, present connection that was evident. I came to love them absolutely unconditionally. I rejoiced in their happiness…however they found it. I stopped trying to change them from living what worked for me, and enjoyed seeing where their spirits took them, and each of them was unique.

I found a new circle of friends — people that stimulated my mind and soul. They were also unconditional. We don’t need to talk daily…we can go months and then meet for lunch and it seems we are still best friends. But if I ever need help, I have dozens of people there for me — and I for them.

My life since then has been indescribably ecstatic. When you don’t need others to tell you you’re okay, there’s no reason not to be!

~Rix

[Anonymous]

Well, the truth is that God invited me to leave the church…..to do what many of you have suggested and just to take some time to reset myself and heal a bit. It was a difficult decision as I was so filled with guilt. I tried to stay away from church for a time but never succeeded in doing so without the guilt. I think I was rather conditioned to feel and act on the guilt. It did get better with time. Then May happened and I felt the Spirit say gently that it was “time to go back” and I have tried to move myself slowly back into that direction while still working on my other concerns.

So, now as I look at things I am sad that I am still in the trap of “mormon thinking” when I should be thinking like Christ. I am really the only one that is keeping me in that headspace. I think enough has happened with the Spirit inside my mind and heart for me to understand that this codep thinking, if you wanna call it that, isn’t of the Lord and isn’t what the Lord wants of true men and women of Christ. So, I suppose I have more work to do on that count. I think what pleases me is that, at least I feel I am headed in the right direction and many of your posts validate my inner longings and give me strength to continue moving forward.

You are right, when you don’t need others to tell you you’re OK then there really is no reason not to be. I think for me my weakness lies more in the judgment I feel in and outside myself when I do something outside the box. I don’t think many would understand my journey. Luckily I found you people. And I don’t feel so alone. I feel incredibly validated. TY.

I will say that leaving mormon culture does do a number on your identity. And I now struggle to know how to reorient myself to the church (gospel part is easy) now that I have given myself permission to be authentic. I somehow want to fly (like in my first post) but stay immoveable (in the gospel sense) too. Like I said when I came here….I have two people living inside me. LOL. I have been praying and really working on these things these last few days and I do feel things coming together. But I also feel myself moving slowly. So….I am getting OK with being a little divided for a time.

BTW, I totally agree that the church is codependent. And it is a catch 22 because leaving means that all your earthly supports, and even relationships go away. It is crazy how LDS people struggle to abide journey’s of faith. I feel like I used to be like that. Now I have a much broader view.

[Anonymous]

Thanks for sharing Poppyseed, I’m so glad you found us.

Here’s to courage, and to moving forward.

[Anonymous]

I think everyone must feel like this poppyseed! It has helped me to remember that all these people I deal with are as imperfect as I am, but my job is to learn to be truly Christlike. I find that when I do my VT with this in mind I truly enjoy it and feel liberated. I’m working on it. But I like to remember that I am free, I am not bound. Sometimes I only have time to make a phone call, but if it is sincere that is what matters, they know. I try hard to be very gracious to my home teachers and make them feel valuable – it has made a huge difference. I have come to really look forward to their visits and especially their blessing on my home. I am not preaching! Just telling you what has helped me. Also I have to be very careful to what I say yes to, and then when I do, do it with gusto.

[Anonymous]

Poppyseed, I heard a great analogy comparing our journey with the rungs on a ladder.

Sometimes we run out of rungs and have to go back to the beginning and get more for the ladder to get us any higher.

Best of luck to you.

[Anonymous]

That’s a fasincating analogy, Bruce – since it doesn’t assume we have to throw out the ladder we were using.

[Anonymous]

Thank you, Victoria, Bruce, and Ray. I appreciate you taking a moment to post.

I have decided that I won’t be a mormon anymore, but rather a Latter-day Saint. I am kinda creating two different definitions. The one being closed and practice/performance oriented. The other focused on Christ but concentrating on the deeper layers of understanding and how that translates into agency and worship.

I think right now I feel a bit isolated as I am not really “in” the ward social groups. But over these past days since I posted this, I do feel more serenity and centeredness inside myself and that feels good. Not going against myself to be “good”. But not staying stagnant or avoidant either just because I can’t do it that way anymore.

Does that make any sense? It’s early where I am. (yawn)

[Author]

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