I feel like there isn’t any hope

[Anonymous]

I did a survey of some Traditional believers and found 40% were somewhat engaged or below (from consistently engaged, somewhat engaged, neutral, somewhat disengaged and totally disengaged). Most said they liked taking the sacrament and found the rest of it a mixed bag or just incredibly boring.

So, I think there is enough evidence this is a widespread problem that should be addressed if we wan to meet our goals of retention, new converts, and just plain old Perfecting the Saints.

[Anonymous]

Once I had an older member tell me “you know the opening song sets the tone for the meeting, a slow, funeral paced song will almost ensure a dead meeting.”

First of all in most of the wards I have been in the hymns are sung like everyone is singing at a funeral. It is one of the things investigators note about our music – dull and not sung as if worshiping. I’m speaking collectively because I truly think there are many that come just to worship through music. I remember growing up we had a chorister that was a converted southern baptist. She would have the congregation singing & feeling the music. There was a time or two when she would actually stop the hymn and would go to the podium and remind everyone that we can do much better and tell everyone we are going to “take it from the top.” I remember really getting into it as a teenager feeling like I was really worshiping through the music.

Secondly, in the wards I have been in the meeting usually starts with two youth speakers. Since the youth are just learning how to speak the rule is that they are probably not going to be very good. It used to be that youth speakers would speak in primary and learn how to give talks there. I always thought this was a great thing the church did in teaching youth how to speak in front of people, a task that usually ranks up there as one of the greatest fears people have. Also, I remember growing up that it was a rare thing when a youth was asked to speak. It wasn’t a requirement to give two talks a year, etc.

Just as a side note, I don’t know if good speakers can get better through practice. HC speaker do it once a month and I don’t know about you but sometimes I prefer the youth speaker…

So, you basically start the meeting with a slow hymn and two youth speakers. The congregation if not already sedated is snoozing or checking out stuff on their cell phones. Just for entertainment sometimes I’ll just look around and see what people are doing during boring parts of the meeting and this is what I see. Of course there are some people that are listening. I have to admit I kind of have to wonder if everyone on the stand is feeling this while appearing to be listening intensely to the speaker.

From the other perspective the church is a lay group of people that are not trained to be speakers, teachers or administrators. I mean people that teach for a living are boring. When was the last time you attended a class (not church) where the teacher was amazing? All you have to do is think about high school or college and you can probably come up with a pretty good list of some really boring teachers.

I think sacrament should be about 35 minutes long. A strong opening song, conduct the ward business, a 10 minute talk or two 5 minute messages, then maybe switch the sacrament to the end as the culmination of the meeting. Of course I don’t think in this day and age we should be attending church for 3 hours so for me, you can basically cut out SS and PH and RS can be 1 hour. Sunday meetings now are 1 1/2 hour long.

Of course never will happen… I won’t rant about SS and GD at the risk of being redundant in another post. If no one has seen it in my other post there is a pretty good three part series on SS and GD.

Part One – http://bycommonconsent.com/2010/01/05/e … ay-school/

Part Two – http://bycommonconsent.com/2010/01/06/e … er-weaker/

Part Three – http://bycommonconsent.com/2010/01/07/e … r-for-you/

[Anonymous]

Hi there Hitheredude,

You hit on so many topics in your introduction, but I understand where you are coming from. Welcome to the community. The main thing, like others said, is we can talk about these issues here. The first thing that comes to mind in response is that you may be projecting too much idealism into others. I’ve found that many (most?) people we might assume are all perfect really struggle at times with the same or similar issues from time to time. We’re all in this crazy game together :crazy: So don’t feel so alone, or like there is something wrong with you. You are actually NORMAL, and even better: you are taking the next step past that and starting to dissect and deconstruct your faith. That’s OK too. It is normal and healthy at some point in our life to take true ownership and responsibility for what we believe (or not believe, or decide is not useful). Find what works. Let go of what does not work, or makes you crazy or upset. This will change over time, so don’t burn bridges. Take your time, and move with purpose.

The second thing that comes to mind is that you are seem to feel like you have to believe it all, or reject it all. Life just isn’t that simple. Neither is religion. Take your time, and find the value in going through your collection of faith, piece by piece, and seeing what you can do with it.

FWIW, the topic of Fast & Testimony meeting in this thread is interesting. I just finished participating in a Mormon Matters panel discussion on that exact topic last night. I think it went good. Dan said it would be posted in a week or two.

[Anonymous]

I like these ideas — start off the meeting with music that is cheery, maybe weave in weaker speakers after a better speaker. A professional Las Vegas comedian told me you start with your B material, move to your C material and then end with your A material. We could structure our speakers that way.

And one thing that REALLY IRKS ME, is the fact that teaching and speaking are probably the two most prevalent activities in our Church. Yet there is precious little training devoted to it in a formal way.

And yes, the leadership and other members will make it all fall on the backs of the members to make it interesting through spirituality, service, being there for others, a sense of duty, etcetera, rather than truly making it better.

MIchael Porter, Harvard Business School professor says that competition in your home market is a good thing because it makes companies very competitive, able to offer better products at a lower cost. Monopolies have the opposite effect — policies that are for the convenience of the monopolistic company, high prices, bad service.

I think the monopoly we claim to have on truth has made us very lazy when it comes to making our meetings

more uplifting and of good quality. Our Sunday meetings in our Ward are like a McDonald’s restaurant this out of hamburgers 70% of the time. I don’t care what others say, good programs, well-prepared speakers, and quality music DOES matter. No wonder we have so much trouble retaining our new converts!!!

[Anonymous]

SilentDawning wrote:

platitudinal statements that put the onus squarely on the backs of the children and the individual to enjoy the meeting (kind of like the onus is on me to enjoy rope burns)

Hey Hitheredude,

I was doing some unrelated googling and ran across the following quote:

“A member once asked me why he felt so good about the talks and music in a sacrament meeting, while a guest he had invited that day apparently experienced no such feeling. This is but one illustration of the contrast between one who has the gift of the Holy Ghost and is in tune with His promptings and one who has not, or is not” (in Conference Report, Oct. 1996, 79–80; or Ensign, Nov. 1996, 60 ).

I thought immediately of you and this conversation specifically. 😆

(Lest I be misconstrued, I share this quote as an example of the “platitudinal statements” SD was referencing and not because I agree with it.)

[Anonymous]

Brian Johnston wrote:

the topic of Fast & Testimony meeting in this thread is interesting. I just finished participating in a Mormon Matters panel discussion on that exact topic last night. I think it went good. Dan said it would be posted in a week or two.

Wo, Brian. That’s awesome, I can’t wait to listen to it. :thumbup:

[Anonymous]

Roy quoted this:

Quote:

A member once asked me why he felt so good about the talks and music in a sacrament meeting, while a guest he had invited that day apparently experienced no such feeling. This is but one illustration of the contrast between one who has the gift of the Holy Ghost and is in tune with His promptings and one who has not, or is not” (in Conference Report, Oct. 1996, 79–80; or Ensign, Nov. 1996, 60 ).

So to paraphrase, if the meeting is bad it’s your fault for not having the spirit (not ours for not bringing it), and if it’s good, it’s ours for bringing the spirit. Nice.

[Anonymous]

Fast & Testimony meeting podcast went live much faster than I expected. Dan Witherspoon is rocking the editing console

http://mormonmatters.org/2011/08/02/45-the-mormon-practice-of-bearing-testimony/

[Anonymous]

Brian,

Very enjoyable podcast, gave me a lot to think about. I enjoyed all the different points of view. :clap:

[Author]

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