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Welcome to the site. I think you’ll find a lot of people here that can relate to your experience. I am in a similar situation: at university, surrounded by other members of the church (although not at a BYU Uni) and questioning what to do. metalrain wrote:
I’m having the hardest time reconciling my spiritual experiences, and feelings, with the knowledge, and information I’ve learned. How could I have had such spiritual experiences when the doubts I am having are all related to the foundation of the church?I empathize. I’ve had a spiritual experience that I can’t reconcile with some of my other thoughts and feelings about the church. For many of my other spiritual experiences I can reason out a little bit more. But not this one, not really. I can’t explain what this spiritual experience meant or even was. Maybe one day I will be able to.
I started seriously questioning about 4 years ago, with my doubts getting progressively more serious as time went on. At times the memory of this spiritual experience greatly stresses me because then I get to worrying what will happen to my life if the TBM way of thinking is correct. But in hindsight, I’m glad I’ve had this spiritual experience because it’s tempered my long-term reactions to my faith crisis ( and has given me a complex perspective on these issues that is accommodating and accepting to multiple view points). This experience was also a sacred and special moment to me when it happened, and I can be grateful for that. Also, in the end, it was my experience, not the church’s, if that makes sense? This spiritual experience that I can’t excuse away is something sacred between me and God. I can’t explain it now. Maybe it does have implications for the church. Maybe I will one day be able to wrap my head around it better. Maybe I never will. But that’s okay for now. I know this probably doesn’t help you now. But that’s my experience.
metalrain wrote:My mom knows I’m doubting. She knows the issues I’m doubting. She has never been the most active but she believes the church is good, as do I. However my grandparents were basically my other parent, and are very TBM. I was home over the break and didn’t want to go to church my last day home and my grandpa gave me a chastising scripture as I got on the plane (out of love and concern, of course). I love them as much as I love my mom and I’m afraid of hurting them. I’m their oldest grandchild, first to go on a mission, etc. I’ve never rebelled and always been the “perfect” grandchild. I feel like me falling away would destroy them and cut years off their lives.
Again, I have empathy for you. I am in a similar situation. It’s hard. You caring about their feelings shows love and concern. As you go into this, remember you’re worth.
I don’t have many words of wisdom. I don’t post on this site a lot and usually when I do it’s when I’m in a state of stress. But I will say this: you are not a bad person for wanting to know the truth. The Church has encouraged you to seek for answers and I think the honest pursuit of knowledge is an honorable endeavor. However, if all this searching is hurting you significantly, it’s okay to ease off and take it slow or take a step back. I understand it’s hard to feel like things are out of control right now and the desire to want to figure things out all at once. Unfortunately, I don’t think life works that way. Perhaps it does for some. I don’t know if “the answers” are always meant to come the way that our culture teaches them to. The church happily recites the official version of the First Vision as an example of solution to questions. It didn’t take Joseph long to get his answer. What the church doesn’t as easily refer to is Brigham Young’s two-year examining of the Book of Mormon (the irony of me saying this is my questions about both of those men).
As I’ve said before, it’s been years for me. I know I’ll never go back to how I believed before. That’s okay. What I can say is that I feel so much better now than I did when this all started. About your situation: you are in an environment that, in my opinion, makes things even more difficult for a faith crisis (not that there’s an easy environment at all, I think in any environment a faith crisis can be devastating). There’s a lot of pressure in BYU town associated with faith from societal and external sources. Maybe getting away from all that pressure (eventually) will help you better adjust to these new revelations and knowledge without so much pressure. For now, don’t hesitate to vent and express yourself here. This community is welcoming and willing to lend an ear (and virtual hug).
I have a long drive tomorrow, so I only glanced briefly through the replies to the thread after reading the initial post, so quick reply here! Welcome to the site, metalrain. You’ve been given a lot of solid advice already. Your story reminds me a lot of my own–hah, I’m about the same age, actually–except I’m post-university and pre-mission. My FC was actually triggered while doing initial preparations to go on my mission some months ago. After several months of soul-searching and rebuilding my belief system and faith from scratch with some really great support of non-LDS but very spiritual friends, I’m in a place where I’m actually comfortable on my decision to continue with a mission. Not saying that to brag. Just letting you know it’s not wholly impossible to be where you are now and still identify as LDS. Of course, I adapt incredibly fast to new situations, so I’m a weird one.
nibbler wrote:I could only begin to find balance again once I worked through the obsession phase. In other words, my experience is that the obsession phase couldn’t be skipped or even hurried.
I found this to be true for my situation as well. My work suffered for quite a stretch because I was so obsessed with reading things that I even did it at the office in the face of looming deadlines. I wished very desperately to just be able to turn off my brain and go back to a feeling of peace. And it did come back, eventually, after I’d worked through my obsession phase, and mostly after I came here and saw how so many other people were reconciling their spirituality and their knowledge. My peace is much different than it was before, of course, but it’s even better than before, because in the end of it all, the beliefs I have now are my own, and I know it. Some of those beliefs come from the Gospel, and others from the spiritual experiences, both positive and negative, that have witnessed to me there is much more going on in this world than we are aware of.
Ultimately, the decision to StayLDS will be yours in the end. But the advice I wish to emphasize from others is to take it slow. Find peace with the LDS faith before you leave it behind, if you do. That might seem impossible with where you are now. But it is very possible. Tackle one problem at a time. Ask the community here for support. We are all hear to listen and share and offer advice whether in public threads or through private messages. Know that after coming from a fairly black-and-white culture, it’s going to be very difficult and against your nature to see things comfortably in gray, and that’s OK.
Go slow. Be patient. The end of one thing is always the beginning of another.
Hi, metalrain – I’m glad you’re here and there’s not much I can add. The people here helped me so much. Especially in my obsessive phase, reading through old threads or being a fly on the wall for current ones was therapeutic. Eventually I realized that life was still good, that I could still feel God’s love, that I still had occasional flashes of inspiration, that I didn’t have to believe anything I didn’t believe and that I could set boundaries between me and the institutional church. It’s scary to be that “perfect” (I took you to mean reliable, predictable, hitting all the right marks) Mormon person who isn’t sure they’ll stay one, but if someone offered me time-travel back I wouldn’t take it. I don’t wonder about my past spiritual experiences, what they were or what they mean, because these past couple of years have changed me so much that they don’t fit anymore. From the outside, not much has changed, but I kind of feel like one of those temples that they gutted and rebuilt. There’s a lot going on inside.
Good luck with the school wrap up and I hope you’re feeling better physically soon, too. As things stand now, what are your plans after graduation?
Hi everyone, West, University, I read your threads while my account was being approved. I empathize very much with both of you. Everyone else, a lot of great advice- the whole spectrum!
As of right now, I think my spiritual experiences and somehow the faith I’ve developed over the years is keeping me in- although removed for the time being.
There have been a lot of great replies- today I’ve taken a step back and am trying to not be so consumed by this. I’m going on a trip tomorrow and am going to be avoiding everything for the time being and enjoying some of the beauty the world has.
See you on Monday or Tuesday!
metalrain wrote:There have been a lot of great replies- today I’ve taken a step back and am trying to not be so consumed by this. I’m going on a trip tomorrow and am going to be avoiding everything for the time being and enjoying some of the beauty the world has.
Great approach!! Keep your perspective. Hold on to the good things you like and give yourself time to digest the new stuff.Anxioius to hear more from you after the weekend.
Hi guys, I’m back. Such an awesome weekend- did so many rad things. I’m not sure how the forum works in the sense of “support”, can I ask/reason my questions and doubts in this section?
Glad you had a nice getaway. Feel free to post your questions, thoughts, doubts, or whatever here. All we ask is that they are presented in a respectful manner. Fire away – just try to keep things to one or two things at a time. The shotgun approach is hard to manage. 
I am somewhat new here, but I can tell you that most anything goes as long as you are not attacking. Don’t expect Sunday School answers though
Hey meatlrain, Just wanted to say welcome. Your story sounds familiar to many others.
The advice you have received is sound. I do empathize with your obsession comments; I have been obsessed for a while. It has started to subside, but I’m not sure it ever will entirely.
However, I have put some things back on the new shelf (Had to build a new one when the old one crashed but the questions and concerns are different).
I have also started to read and explore ideas outside of Mormonism. I still attend and fulfill my calling, however from an intellectual perspective I am on a different path at the moment.
I guess my point is that the obsessive stage will get better at some point. Embrace it for now, just don’t get too caught up in the negativity if possible.
The obsessive thing is something I don’t think I experienced. Just saying, I’m having a hard time relating to it. I experienced a lot of things, including anger that is still there from time to time, but I can’t say I was ever obsessed with anything about my faith crisis. I think the thing I’m having the hardest time with is Joseph Smith. And I think a majority of it was due to the stories and information I was told at church vs. what the history says. How have you guys worked through things like the seer stone vs. urim & thummim, polyandry, book of abraham & etc? metalrain wrote:I think the thing I’m having the hardest time with is Joseph Smith. And I think a majority of it was due to the stories and information I was told at church vs. what the history says. How have you guys worked through things like the seer stone vs. urim & thummim, polyandry, book of abraham & etc?
You mean like the church paints him as one slight shade off from the purest white you could even imaging, but then you start reading about all the “dirt” on him. I am at a point where I consider him a DEEPLY flawed man (he repeatedly admits this, but you don’t see that in most SS lessons), but I am trying to see if I can still hold him as a prophet even with those glaring faults.I partially come away thinking, if JS was able to do that as a prophet – then there is a chance I am not as damned as I think I was. I have not slept around with other people’s wives or did some of what he allegedly did. IMO There is NO way JS could get away with all he did in today’s church (with the caveat of the Lord pouring his spirit out to everyone that came within 50 feet of him). They would have kicked him out ASAP.
But the hard time I have with that is then coming back to the strictness and OBEY OBEY OBEY of today’s church along with the, “the Q12 and 1st Pres will NEVER EVER say anything wrong.” My assumption is that at every conference something not prompted of the spirit is said to test to see if those listening will check back with God if it was right or not. A bit of an odd game of “simon says” or “mother may I?”.
metalrain wrote:I think the thing I’m having the hardest time with is Joseph Smith. And I think a majority of it was due to the stories and information I was told at church vs. what the history says. How have you guys worked through things like the seer stone vs. urim & thummim, polyandry, book of abraham & etc?
metalrain, understand first that I am an atheist, so I believe JS was not a prophet in the same way that I believe that there was no God or Jesus for him to channel.Having gotten that out on the table, let me make an observation:
“the history” is an impossible quagmire. I believe it is safe to say that we will never understand what was going on there. Every item of analysis has bias, either of the analyst or of the source data used. We know some facts, but it’s difficult to place them into context. We know that JS had multiple wives, but we don’t have a clear picture of what that even meant. Usually, we fall into the trap of projecting our understanding of marriage onto those relationships, but I think it’s probable that his marriages (outside of with Emma) had little or no correlation with our marriages today, or even with polygamous marriages of BY or of modern polygamists. I’m not saying that it wasn’t bad, but rather that we can’t really understand it. IMO it was wrong and led to a lot of heartbreak in the Church, but we can only guess at what was going on in his mind. Those who have a bias toward belief will guess “God” and those who have a bias away from belief will guess “Sex”. My point is that there is no “the history” that we can use to measure our understanding of JS against. It’s an interpretive dance we are both watching. I see a lion stalking a gazelle, while you see a lady looking for her glasses.
First let me say that I never really had a problem with history per se. It is what it is. However, like many who have gone through a faith crisis and/or transition I can relate to being taught something which I later discover to be patently untrue or at least far different than what I was taught. Yes, it does bother me that videos show Joseph Smith sitting at a table with a finger on the plates while “translating” when it is now very clear that’s not how it generally happened. The essays help me with this, I assume you have read them. So, despite that I know JS didn’t sit at a table with the plates but rather stuck his head in a hat with a stone in it, can I believe he translated the Book of Mormon by the “gift and power of God?” Sure, it really makes no difference if he did it in the way depicted in the movies and countless Sunday School and Primary classes or with is head in the hat. The real decision is whether or not he did it. I frankly don’t know. I believe the BoM is a good book and that it teaches gospel principles – but I suppose I could say the same for Dickens “A Christmas Carol” (which I recently referenced in a talk). I do not have a testimony that it is the actual history of ancient peoples that inhabited the Americas, nor do I have a testimony of much else about it. It could be what Joseph said it is or he could have made it up or it could be something in between. While I was apparently asked if I believe the BoM is the word of God 34 years ago in a baptismal interview, I don’t recall that nor do I recall being asked that since – including in my most recent temple recommend interview. For my own understanding I simply ignore anything taught in the book that is not in line with what is taught in the Bible, and view it as a big parable. FWIW, I also don’t take the Bible literally.
Like LH, I have also come to an understanding that Joesph Smith was a deeply flawed man, and even though other prophets are also flawed (yes, I think church curriculum does try to hide that OT prophets had flaws, too) I also recognize that if Joseph Smith and they could do all of this and still be a prophet and still be promised exaltation, then there is hope for me – and pretty much everybody else. This idea increases my faith in grace.
Like the priesthood ban, I don’t believe polygamy was ever the plan of God in this dispensation. I don’t know why Joseph believed in it (or how much he did, actually) but I also don’t buy the angel and the sword story. While I understand that because of whitewashed history many members did not know of Joseph’s polygamy, I did – but I did not know about polyandry and marrying teenage girls. Again, he was far from perfect – farther than I am from perfect – and that gives me hope.
The Book of Abraham is a sticky one. I have not believed Joseph’s story since my mission over 30 years ago, and evidence has only mounted since then. I can say that it is similar to the Book of Mormon in some respects but I do not view it on the same level as the BoM, partly because it teaches things that are not expressly taught in either the Bible of BoM. I do not consider it scripture, I do not read it, I do not quote from it, and I ignore any references to it in anything said or read. I don’t mean to be offensive in that statement, but if you want to know how I feel and how I deal with, that’s it. It is non grata.
All of that said, just because that’s how I have come to terms with these things doesn’t mean that’s how you need to come to terms with them. Others here have other ways they deal with these issues. One of the great values I find in this site is being able to read other perspectives on any given issue, and this has often helped my to form my own thoughts and coping mechanisms.
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