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Heber13 wrote:metalrain wrote:
What are everyones thoughts on the temple?
I can’t deny the experiences I’ve had in the temple. Part of me thinks I could have the same experiences up in the mountains walking in nature and talking with God.
Some of my most spiritual or profound moments of awareness of God were in the mountains, by myself. I feel much closer to God’s presence in nature than I do in the temple. However, in the initiatory session, I’ve found peace in those promises- even though (maybe?) due to my own unworthiness, protection hasn’t always been offered through the garment. Endowment sessions are relaxing to the point where all I do is fall asleep during the movies, but during the rest of the ceremony the discomfort begins.. until the quietness of the celestial room. But.. I find and feel a more raw connection to God in nature in comparison to the celestial room.
The one thing about the temple that makes me wonder is the sealing ceremony- it’s such a beautiful thing and IF I’ve felt the spirit in the temple it has been in that ceremony- if not it was just an incredible amount of radiating love from those present. That’s my challenge right now. I don’t really believe the church is the only true church so much anymore- but I for some reason would like to get sealed. It’s a weird place.
I want sealing to be real. I want it bad enough that I haven’t written the church off as fake. Not entirely. But did it used to be about binding people to their loved one forever? Seems like it was different before. If a couple or family can look at the spires of the temple and the white clothing and believe the ordinances create hope for the promises given, then I see value in the temple sealings, and there can be real value to how it helps that couple or family look forward with faith, and can foster more love and commitment than without some symbolic ritual. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
My wife and I both agree that our temple sealing gave us the backbone to weather some challenges. Our marriage probably would not have survived without it. We are grateful for that benefit, just as we are grateful that our chance for lung disease or alcohol and/drug addiction approaches zero. In that context tithing is turning out to be a reasonable investment. dash1730 wrote:Our marriage probably would not have survived without it. We are grateful for that benefit…
I love this example!!:thumbup: Thanks, Dash!
I also think that my temple marriage and what it used to mean to me (along with having kids) kept me from divorce. I can’t say it kept my marriage as I think I don’t have much of a marriage. My temple marriage kept me in the marriage until I was so old and balding that I figured, “why jump back in the dating pool – that just isn’t going to work.” Yeah, I’m on the temple marriage saved my marriage wagon, too. Maybe not as much for me as for my wife, but either way I think it figured in heavily. My current beliefs about temple marriage are much more symbolic. LookingHard wrote:I also think that my temple marriage and what it used to mean to me (along with having kids) kept me from divorce.
DarkJedi wrote:Yeah, I’m on the temple marriage saved my marriage wagon, too.
I don’t think this can be overlooked lightly. The idea that temples increase commitment is a real benefit to many families.The church has some very good fruits But are they true or just good is what I struggle with. taletotell wrote:But are they true or just good is what I struggle with.
Is that a binary? Can it only be one or the other? As in it is either black or white?I went through a period of thinking about the phrase, “I know the church is true.” What is the church and is it the same as the gospel? I asked in a different way, “I know my ward is true” – that sounds odd. That isn’t the case. Every ward I have been in has had some people I love and were examples of Christ and some people that tried my faith.
The church paints the church that it is the whitest white and if you see any issues, that is YOUR lack of faith. I don’t buy that at all anymore. I see lots of issues with the church and I am both trying to change the really bad things and do my best to do what God would want me to do (even if it is causing a bit of a ruckus at church).
The church is supposed to help me live the gospel and help me with MY relationship with God. When I die, I don’t think I will be a “member” of the church there. I will be (near?) God. That is drastically different than the way I used to look at the church was how to get to God. Now I see it more as a handrail to help me to God, not the steps to get to God.
I hope this makes some sense. I am on a snoozer of a call at work and writing these during the parts that I normally would fall asleep.
Good response, LH. Reminds me of the late, great Brian Johnston’s comments back in 2009 discussing this with swimordie and peaceandjoy. In his response, he said:
Quote:We are asking for a yes/no (true/false) answer to a very complex question. It’s sort of like asking if an ham sandwich is true. Is a ham sandwich true? How does someone answer that? A ham sandwich will do a lot of things for you. It will stop your hunger pains. It will nourish you … but you will eventually die of malnutrition if you only eat the one true ham sandwich. Was your ham sandwich made in a clean kitchen with quality ingredients? Anyway … I don’t want to go crazy with the comparison. It’s a hard question to answer with yes or no.
You can follow the old thread by clicking the linkhereThe church is as true as a ham sandwich.
:thumbup: Heber13 wrote:Good response, LH.
Reminds me of the late, great Brian Johnston’s comments back in 2009 discussing this with swimordie and peaceandjoy. In his response, he said:
Quote:We are asking for a yes/no (true/false) answer to a very complex question. It’s sort of like asking if an ham sandwich is true. Is a ham sandwich true? How does someone answer that? A ham sandwich will do a lot of things for you. It will stop your hunger pains. It will nourish you … but you will eventually die of malnutrition if you only eat the one true ham sandwich. Was your ham sandwich made in a clean kitchen with quality ingredients? Anyway … I don’t want to go crazy with the comparison. It’s a hard question to answer with yes or no.
You can follow the old thread by clicking the linkhereThe church is as true as a ham sandwich.
:thumbup:
Now if it was just a hamAND BACONsandwich, that would trulybe tasty. 😆 Can you tell I didn’t get my breakfast?Binary would either true or good. That isn’t the question at all. That would only be the question if Satan were God. The point is, there are a lot of good organizations. The only way the church is at all compelling is if it is both good and true. Otherwise I can find good organizations that won’t do the emotional harm the church does and don’t claim to be the only true organization.
taletotell wrote:The only way the church is at all compelling is if it is both good and true.
…that kind of sounds binary to me, though. Especially if “good” and “true” are complex concepts.
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