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Kipper wrote:
In a way I’m letting people down by my substandard participation and contributions and they deserve to know why. It’s not just a matter of getting it off my chest, it has to do with being honest and looking for some honesty in return. I don’t know what to expect or what my explanation will turn into but either way I am going to be truthful. I’m not sure I will receive the same.
I think I understand where you are coming from. I think the best that you can hope for is an apology. I actually feel there is a fair chance that you might get one. I am not sure if it will feel better or worse. Especially if it is one of those “I’m sorry if you feel that…” sort of non-apologies.
I do feel like a second class citizen at church. My participation and contributions are not meeting expectations so I suppose I am seen as a sort of half-mile runner. To me it seems that the church asks for so much that I am saying no all the time. For example, just last weekend we were contacted about a service project for my son (Dads also requested), a request to help someone move, a request for DW and I to substitute a SS class in a few weeks, my wife received a request to bring in a meal for an ailing individual, and my daughter was asked to give a talk in church next Sunday (when she accepted her current calling as YW class president she did so on condition that she would never have to speak in SM). All of these things are in addition to the callings that DW and I perform in the church and we have to say no to most of them. These requests are in no way coordinated, they are just tiny examples of the innumerable impositions that the church tends to make upon us.
I also do not pay tithing. This is perhaps the biggest item that makes me feel lesser than. In my meetings with my Bishop on the subject of tithing, I am made to feel like a dead beat father that is delinquent in child support payments and giving excuses as to why I can’t pay. Super emasculating and demoralizing. However, I feel like the only alternative would be to communicate that I am not convinced that I owe the church any money. I worry that would paint me as defiant and apostate.
SilentDawning wrote:
You will have to throw away an value you attach to your reputation in the Ward. After you cross that line, everything gets a lot easier, believe me.
For me and my current situation and goals it is better for me to be seen as a less committed, perhaps lazy, member of weak and struggling faith than to be seen as defiant or apostate or even just agnostic non-believer. I do not consider the church as my primary social group and I do not rely on my reputation in the church for my self actualization. However I do want to be able to ordain my son to the priesthood when he turns 18 and perhaps witness my children’s weddings in the temple some day.Roy wrote:
For me and my current situation and goals it is better for me to be seen as a less committed, perhaps lazy, member of weak and struggling faith than to be seen as defiant or apostate or even just agnostic non-believer. I do not consider the church as my primary social group and I do not rely on my reputation in the church for my self actualization. However I do want to be able to ordain my son to the priesthood when he turns 18 and perhaps witness my children’s weddings in the temple some day.
This is the way I see it. Stay connected, involved, perhaps be present at ordinances that you’re allowed to attend. If they prevent you, well, I guess it’s their rules.
In my case I could have seen my daughter married, but my daughter discouraged it. She didn’t want me to be inauthentic and get a TR for the sake of the wedding only to renig. So I didn’t. It wasn’t so bad. No one said anything, I was there for the pictures afterwards. I gave her away at a ring ceremony. My Bishop didn’t care enough to even contact me about it, even after my wife went in for the TR to attend the wedding, which shows me again, the organization cares little for some of its members. I actually felt afterwards that I had made my own sacrifices given what I’d lost anyway — status in our Ward, respect from certain extended family members, etcetera. It only deepened my commitment to personal freedom, to doing things my own way, and not letting the church extract everything from me as they please.
But back to Kipper, who has some decisions to make, or to simply hold the status quote. Interested in how this situation plays out…
Just wanted to check in and say from one struggling ward clerk to another, I salute you. Hang in there! Rumin8 wrote:
Just wanted to check in and say from one struggling ward clerk to another, I salute you. Hang in there!
Thank you, you 2. I have some things drafted and will be back soon.
My husband and I got called in for a TR interview and we had been putting it off for a while. Like 6+ months. We knew that it could be bad but we didn’t want to lie. We had a frank conversation with our bishop, told him we had contemplated leaving the church, that we didn’t feel comfortable having or even thinking of going to the temple at this time, that we were moving slowly and cautiously because we have children living at home invested in the church. We were really open ended with it. We had a pleasant conversation. But, BUT with a different type of bishop it could be really hard/terrible. I knew our bishop well enough before this to know that 1. He is so kind. 2. His goal is for the ward to feel the love of HF and JC. 3. He does care about us but is understanding to everyone being in their own place. It also helps that I am friends with his wife and mutual friends.
When or if we have another discussion with a different bishop it could be hard and it could cause us to leave. We will get there when/if it happens. Proceed with caution.
I’m glad it turned out about as well as could be expected. There bishops like your out there, perhaps too few and too far between, but they are there. Mordimor wrote:
…When or if we have another discussion with a different bishop it could be hard and it could cause us to leave. We will get there when/if it happens. Proceed with caution.
I don’t feel real confident in our bishop’s understanding, I guess that’s why I have been putting off having a talk. Doesn’t make it much easier for me living inside my own head. A while back in ward council we were talking about our responsibilities to those in the ward who are less active and how we need to get them to accept callings and please come back because we need you
After all these years in my FC I have concluded that the church as a whole is not structured to help with individual spiritual needs and repairing damages outside of “I’ll join you in a special fast and prayer”.
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