I really don’t know what I am.

[Anonymous]

Hi all. I’ve been reading on here for about a month and finally decided to introduce myself. I hope this is the right forum to do so.

I grew up in SLC with a non-attending LDS mom and a non-attending Catholic dad. I was baptized Catholic when an infant but didn’t know anything about either religion and, as a family, we didn’t practice anything. When I was 13 or so I started spending a lot of time with my next door neighbor who was also the “shop” teacher at my junior high school. Great man, very appropriately involved in my life. He was the YM president. Through his influence, and others, I started going to church and taking the discussions. I was baptized when I was 16. My mom started going to church with me. I never got a strong converted feeling, just pretty much liked hanging out with kids my age and doing things.

At 18, my dad died of lung cancer and 3 weeks after turning 19 I went on a mission. Again, never great strong burning belief, just sort of went along. Came home after 2 years (to the day). Shortly after, I met a much older (15 year difference) lady at a singles ward and we started having sex. I was guilt ridden but didn’t stop. Eventually I was put on “informal probation” but we ended up getting married. The marriage was annulled after 7 months and I, briefly, stopped attending church. I eventually went back to the singles ward and met my wife. We have been married 20 years this month. Three kids, all boys. About 12 years ago I was excommunicated. It happened while I was EQP. My wife forgave me and eventually I was re-baptised and had my blessings restored about five years ago. Same thing that I never really had a “burning testimony” just went along.

Last March, I tried killing myself and ended up spending 11 days in a psychiatric hospital. I’ve been depressed for awhile over a number of issues, one major one is – If I don’t really believe in this religion why do I spend so much time involved in it? Anyway, with consultation with my doctors, therapists, and my wife, I decided to “take a break” from church. I met with the bishop and told him my concerns and explained what I was doing. He was not overly negative or positive, just very even keeled, which I really appreciated. He is not a fire and brimstone sort of bishop, thank God!

I’m very confused and anxious. (Diagnosed with Generalized Anxiety Disorder and Obsessive thoughts.) My big concerns right now are Who am I? What is my religious identity? Why do I feel happier now that God and I have “agreed to ignore each other” for awhile. How long can this last? :problem: (I think that’s what I mean???)

I have three sons (17, 12 and 10) and my wife has a large extended family with whom we do many things. I want to find a way to easily explain that I won’t be participating in blessings, baptisms, ordinations, etc…. etc… etc… Any ideas? Or should I participate? (Especially where my own kids are concerned. I have stopped paying tithing and I drink coffee and tea so I know I shouldn’t have a temple recommend, but is it ok to bless, ordain, my own boys?) I just reread that, and I am confused. *sigh*

My TBM wife is very loving and very tolerant and is supportive. However, she has major concerns that, from her perspective, are valid. Obviously – if the boys see me staying home, how can she “make” them attend church? What happens to our family in the next life? What are my plans with religion?

I am a scientist by profession and for a very long time I have been so full of doubt and I’ve been beating myself up for having those doubts. Now, I am determined to be 100% honest with myself and with my wife. I tell her exactly what I feel although I hold back on some things because I don’t want to “shake” her faith. In many ways I wish I had the capacity to have “pure” faith and I find myself angry at seeing others who seem so confidant in their beliefs. I guess more jealousy than anger.

I really don’t know what I am or what I believe or not. It’s very scary.

Thanks for reading.

[Anonymous]

Yes, you are smack-dab in the middle of the hard part. I am so sorry for everything that you have been experiencing. How painful, and how tiring, it must be. It sounds like your wife is pretty supportive (though correct me if I’m wrong), and that is a big plus. I do not have any kids, and I’m still working on developing a game plan on how to raise our future children with parents who have different beliefs. I think your sons are old enough to understand your situation (to a certain extent) if you are completely honest with them.

TBMs have a habit of trying to change your mind. For the most part, they can’t change their feelings and beliefs any more than you can, so it’s important not to do or say anything hurtful or disrespectful if this is the case with your family. Try not to get defensive or impatient. Years from now, you will want them to be able to look back on this time and have the comfort of knowing that this change in you, whether they agree with your beliefs or not, ultimately made you into a better, happier person than you were before.

The only important thing is that you do whatever you need to do to be happy. If any level of participation in the church brings you more pain than peace, then you don’t need it. Another religion may suit you better, or a combination of faiths, or a hobby that brings you spiritual fulfillment. If communicating with (or even believing in) a God brings you more pain than peace, then it is counterproductive to continue doing so (at least for the moment). Perhaps you are a person who will never find true peace in any kind of worship; perhaps, in time, you will be able to heal enough that you want to bring those things back into your life. Just do what you need to do, and focus on not feeling guilty or ashamed about it in the meantime.

Best of luck :thumbup:

[Anonymous]

I have at times gone to church with the family, saw them get to their classes, and then disappeared until we join up at Sacrament meeting. This is how I balanced the need for my showing up with my personal need for space. You can tune out the meeting if you need to, focus your thoughts elsewhere.

I would say — don’t be afraid to draw boundaries around your relationship with the Church, while balancing the needs of your family. This has helped me.

However, that’s the kind of decision I’d make in consultation with my therapist since depression can be a very nasty thing (I know, I’ve experienced it myself in short doses). I cope partly through self-protectionism — by avoiding situations which trigger it. If that means avoiding church to maintain your mental health, I would do that. I have done so for different periods in my life.

[Anonymous]

Welcome. Like all of us here, I’m sure, I feel your pain, anxiety and frustration, and at some level understand it because I have experienced it myself in one form or another.

Regarding participating in priesthood ordinances, the following blurb from the CHI should help.

Quote:

Only a Melchizedek Priesthood holder who is worthy to hold a temple recommend may act as voice in confirming a person a member of the Church, conferring the Melchizedek Priesthood, ordaining a person to an office in that priesthood, or setting apart a person to serve in a Church calling.

That’s pretty much the only restriction concerning what you can and cannot do. Note that you need not have a TR to do those things listed, just be TR worthy. And of course that’s up to your bishop to decide what that means and if you pass muster. In any case you can still participate, but not as “voice”. Any “worthy” (no mention of “temple worthy” here) priesthood holder can baptize.

So there are lots of ways you can continue to be involved if you want to. Do your best with what you’ve got to work with. You will figure out how much church involvement is best for you now, and now is not forever. I’m sure that for some people, taking a break from church is the healthy option.

I look forward to hearing about your progress, and I hope you continue finding hope and support here.

[Anonymous]

doug beat me to it. What he said.

[Anonymous]

starkravingmad, thank you for your introduction. I’m sorry about your “crisis” of faith. Many of us know what you’re going through with similar experiences & results of our own. When I went through my own, I went through the following steps:

– prayed for answers, comfort or both.

– went to the Bishop for answers.

– searched the scriptures for answers.

– searched the writings of General Authorities for answers.

– talked to other people outside of Church for answers.

When nothing worked I got angry. As time went on, I’ve learned that our answers come from within. God helps. People help. It may take time for the answers to become clearer & develop fully. You have a number of questions:

Quote:

If I don’t really believe in this religion why do I spend so much time involved in it?

For me, I had to back away for awhile. I found that the more time I spent a Church, the angrier I got.

Quote:

My big concerns right now are Who am I? What is my religious identity? Why do I feel happier now that God and I have “agreed to ignore each other” for awhile. How long can this last? (I think that’s what I mean???)

For me, in my recovery, my identity was I’m Christian, a follower of Jesus Christ. I didn’t try to make it any more complicated than that.

For me, I took it a “day at a time”. Do what you can & leave the rest.

Quote:

I have three sons (17, 12 and 10) and my wife has a large extended family with whom we do many things. I want to find a way to easily explain that I won’t be participating in blessings, baptisms, ordinations, etc…. etc… etc… Any ideas? Or should I participate? (Especially where my own kids are concerned. I have stopped paying tithing and I drink coffee and tea so I know I shouldn’t have a temple recommend, but is it ok to bless, ordain, my own boys?) I just reread that, and I am confused.

For me, I didn’t feel comfortable participating so, I didn’t. Real friends will understand. My sons were a big part of my recovery. From time to time we would have some very honest talks about what we were going through. It was about this time that I started greeting my sons with (manly) hugs. We still do it today. There is something very healing about giving & receiving hugs.

Quote:

My TBM wife is very loving and very tolerant and is supportive. However, she has major concerns that, from her perspective, are valid. Obviously – if the boys see me staying home, how can she “make” them attend church? What happens to our family in the next life? What are my plans with religion?

We are very fortunate to have very loving & supportive wives.

For me, we have to be as open & honest as possible.

And have faith that God will reveal more as we’re ready. My sons are in their 30’s. They are not active in church, they didn’t go on missions, they didn’t marry in the temple. They did graduate from college. They did find their own spiritual paths. They are happy & well adjusted. They married wonderful people & they gave me (5) grand children who(m) I adore & they adore me.

My wife & I are “active” again. God will be the only one that will define that word for me. It will be better this time around. Life will get better for you too. Meet it on your own terms. It may not be easy at times. God will speak to you when you least expect it.

I look forward to hear more from you.

Mike from Milton.

ps. Someone wrote:

Quote:

I’m stronger because I had to be. I’m happier because of sadness I’ve known & now wiser because I learned the lesson

I probably got it from someone on this forum.

[Anonymous]

Old-Timer wrote:

doug beat me to it. What he said.

Ditto.

I think working out who and what you are takes patience. It sounds like you are getting help with therapists and family, that is good. It will take time and patience to work through these things, there is no quick answer or silver bullet. But we can support you along the way.

Journey on and keep it calm and go slow. There is hope.

[Anonymous]

Thank you all for the thoughtful replies. Mike, what you said in particular was very helpful and hopeful.

I am feeling hopeful and trying to be mindful about each moment in life. I’ve known about the “history hiding” of the church and the Book of Mormon “problems” for at least 20 years and they haven’t bothered me so much because I tried to practice living by faith and trusting my feelings. Then, when I was in the hospital, I learned how much of what we think and feel just is not true. I began to mindfully examine my own thoughts. I was so entrenched with the idea that “we are what we think” that I didn’t before conceive of an alternative to that. I learned that I could be an observer of my thoughts, and that my thoughts are not me. (If interested, this is called Mindfulness Based Stress Reduction.) I realized that beating myself up all the time because of my doubts, was unhealthy. I also promised my wife that I would really strive to be 100% honest with her, which lead to my telling her about my doubts and the depression and anxiety church was triggering in me.

The big issue for me with the church is, if the plan of salvation as taught is true, then God set me up to fail. That the plan of salvation, as taught by the church, wont save mankind because it has reached so very precious few. I can no longer believe in the idea that God wiped our memories, and then sent us to earth to prove our worthiness to Him, and then will assign us a status for eternity based on what we do, acting solely on faith, during this short period of time. Faith is a problem for me now but I still rely on some faith. I value God and I value the Atonement of Christ.

Thanks for listening.

[Anonymous]

Others already gave great advice, so no need to repeat all that was said above. I’ll just add that it has helped me a lot to focus instead on what WORKS instead of what is “true.”

I’m guessing you can appreciate that perspective as a scientist. If something doesn’t work for you, then it isn’t true for you. Religion is supposed to make you happy and be a better person. Mormonism is supposed to exalt you and bring you closer and closer to your divine and limitless spiritual potential.

If it’s harming you, there are two basic decisions: stop –or– do it different.

So treat it like a scientific experiment. Use the scientific method to test different parts of your religious belief. If some part is harming you, replace it with a new part. If some part makes you happy, focus on that and build on it. Hypothesize. Test. Adjust. Form new hypothesis. Rinse and repeat.

God will not fault you for doing what makes you happy and creates joy in others around you.

starkravingmad wrote:

The big issue for me with the church is, if the plan of salvation as taught is true, then God set me up to fail. That the plan of salvation, as taught by the church, wont save mankind because it has reached so very precious few. I can no longer believe in the idea that God wiped our memories, and then sent us to earth to prove our worthiness to Him, and then will assign us a status for eternity based on what we do, acting solely on faith, during this short period of time. Faith is a problem for me now but I still rely on some faith. I value God and I value the Atonement of Christ.

I don’t believe life is a trick question anymore either. It isn’t a test. It’s an adventure. It’s messy and chaotic and tough and disappointing and beautiful and exciting all at the same time. We will all have an epic tale of adventure to share when we’re done. God must loves good stories and adventures, he sure created a lot of interesting and unique characters.

Faith still works. You just need to tweak the tuning to find peace and love. God is love. You can’t fail the test.

[Anonymous]

I see life as a journey, not as a test – but I respect deeply those who see it as a test and who are helped by that view.

If something works for someone, I’m not about to try to shatter that – even it doesn’t work at all for me.

[Anonymous]

starkraving…, I like how you finisher your last post:

Quote:

I value God and I value the Atonement of Christ.

I think you just answered the subject of you intro. This is a good start for your journey of faith.

Keep it coming.

Mike from Milton.

[Anonymous]

starkravingmad,

What field of science are you in? I’m a physics major in college and I plan to be a scientist or engineer. It’s strange that is has only been recently that I have “done science” to my religious beliefs. As soon as I applied the scientific method to my TBM religious beliefs, they fell apart. They were either unsupported by evidence or were contradicted by evidence. Now I’ve decided to be honest with myself (as you said you have been) and I now am trying to scale my confidence in beliefs according the strength of supporting evidence and personal experiences. I’ve experienced the same kind of insanity that you have in continuing to believe things that I knew were probably not factually accurate. I would never do that in science, so why would I do that in religion? So I am trying to form a new evidence-based and experience-based view of the world.

When you say, “I don’t know what I am” that’s a tough one for me as well. So much of my identity was tied up in the Church that I haven’t really known what to make of myself after my faith crisis. I was always “a Latter-Day Saint” or “a Mormon.” So now that I’m not a TBM anymore, what is my identity? Is there a secular humanist in me waiting to come out? Spiritual but not religious? Religious but not spiritual? A cultural Mormon? A semi-active Mormon? I haven’t decided that yet.

[Anonymous]

Inquiring Mind,

Just curious if you’ve listened to some of the “scientist” podcasts? I enjoyed Trent Stephens on A Thoughtful Faith, and David Bailey on Mormon Stories both very much. I’m always curious of what other people think about their views and approach.

[Author]

Posts