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I’m getting tired, mostly of church, but I find myself tired of theology. The nostalgia seems to be wearing off and I am losing my motivation to be an active participant in church. I am a sixth generation LDS person, served a mission like I should have, accepted most callings, am currently the Sunday School President, and have always been active. My wife and I make it a point to go to church on vacations when available.
I understand church doctrine very well, I have a testimony and have a personal relationship with God, I know He lives. Yet, I find myself wanting to isolate myself lately from the rest of the ward and the church as a whole.
I don’t want my calling right now. I was embarrassed by my bishop and my wife several months ago when we realized we needed some marital counseling and asked the bishop for direction. I let her vent to bishop while I kept mostly silent wanting to be the good guy and not shine her faults out, and he more or less told me that the problems were my fault, positively told me that he sides with my wife, and told me to repent. I guess that’s what I deserve for not defending myself. Well, my wife it at fault too. She’s as stubborn as I am about things.
So I don’t go to Ward Counsel now ’cause I don’t want to see the bishop. The other members of the counsel notice my absence and have come to some soft judgments about me. I always considered myself a good Mormon.
I am shamed before God knowing that I am on a wrong course.
I find myself countering what some others say in talks or testimonies, such as, “I am so grateful to be a member of this Church.” This comment happened today during testimony meeting. I thought, “Why? What’s so great about this church? Aren’t others good too?” I realize one grudge I have against this church, or God, is that, if this church is so great and so right, and everyone needs it to go to heaven, and it’s SSOOOOO important, why isn’t its importance more apparent to the rest of the world? Why aren’t people flocking to us? The Born Agains seem to be on fire too.
Must be a Faith thing.
Anyway, I didn’t even make it through Sacrament meeting today, after a tiff with my wife out in the hall over a child discipline issue, I put the baby in her arms, threw my hands in the air and went home.
I can’t seem to be good enough to feel good enough. I can’t seem to get my motivation up. I am Temple worthy I think, but I can’t go there because I’m not sustaining my leader. I have this idea in my head of who and what and how I am supposed to be and I am failing at it. What a downer.
Ironically, I came to this forum a couple of years ago to help other people who were struggling, and now look at me.
Ow. I am leaving for my meetings at the moment but I will think of you sending love and out stretched heart that you find helpful answers and solutions you are looking for. Go to lds family services or reputable therapist with your wife. You both need counseling and your bishop is likely not qualified to do so. I think if you tackle that beast with your wife your church issues will be largely resolved. Not working together and not going to counseling tends to result in divorce. My wife and I went to counseling for a few months before we worked things out. Don’t beat up on yourself…it never helps. We are all human and screw up. Some people are better at hiding it than others.
My thoughts: 1. Your Bishop probably doesn’t have a clue giw to counsel people in their marriages. What does he do for a living? (you don’t have to answer that). Bishops are not trained to be counselors — in fact, I’m surprised it’s even legal for them to be “advertised” in the Church as even a quasi form of counselor for that given all the licensing requirements for the counselling profession.
2. Based on two licensed counselors I saw when my wife and I struggled early in our marriage, marital problems are often due to BOTH of the people in the marriage. So, for the Bishop to decide it’s all your fault was probably a wrong diagnoses — particularly since he didn’t even try to figure out what your side of the story was.
3. I would meet with him privately and share your feelings with him about his counseling session with you. Let him know privately how you feel using an atmosphere of respect. Put forth your reasons and your perspective on your marriage. Let him know that is the purpose of your meeting with him since that perspective didn’t come out in the previous session, and you felt that was driving some unbalanced conclusions on his part.
You could try broaching how that meeting left you feeling toward your calling, and leave the ball in his court. He will benefit from the feedback.
4. Regarding your calling, I would look at the influence your involvement in your calling has on your marriage. Weigh that carefully when deciding whether to quit, delegate, or lessen your involvement.
5. Check out
http://www.marriagebuilders.com . That site saved my marriage years ago. It wouldn’t surprise me if it might help you understand the dynamics of your marriage and how to improve it. It did for both myself and my wife. I can tell you what makes my marriage work now, when before, I had no idea.10 years later, I still apply the principles, like when my wife came into my room, plopped herself in front of me and started telling me about her day, in spite of the fact I was right in the middle of this post and was obviously absorbed….I know what to do when that happens since I know her needs and how to meet them, all based on the marriagebuilders site.
In the little time I have right now, I will make two suggestions: 1) See a therapist, if possible. Seriously, seek professional help.
2) Read the tribute post I just wrote with Chieko Okazaki’s quotes. There are some that relate directly to your situation.
Thanks for your responses and your obvious concern. Bishop gave us the recommend to go to counseling with Family Services and we went for several months. A good experience for my wife and I. Counselor helped us break through some barriers hurting our marriage. So that’s all improved.
You’re right, I should talk to the Bishop and let him know where I am still struggling. He’s not a bad guy nor do I believe he wanted to offend me. But I’m still mad at him and don’t want to face him. It kind of feels good holding the grudge. I know, I’m digging my own pit.
My lack of enthusiasm for the church has been coming on for a while. It first it reared its ugly head when I realized I had and others have a personal relationship to
God regardless of the church. Perhaps my testimony of the church is not solidified, because it seems to me that God and the Church are separated. For us Mormons who belong to the “True Church,” it shouldn’t be a separate thing. Or should it? Yet, there are millions of other people in the world who have a relationship with God and aren’t Mormon.
This next part is going to paint me as immature and stuck-up, but I think it plays a part into my problem.
Other factors that may be adding to this is my growing LACK of fear of consequences in my life. Lately with my wife making so much more money and my income not being needed as much, I have made it fairly clear to my employers that I don’t need to work, and if I get fired that I wouldn’t care. I have a fall-back plan. (It needs to be said here that I have always been a good employee and have always had a good work ethic.) They want me to stay and am willing to let some of my selfishness and rudeness slide, and I am willing to stay because I like the money and my wife won’t let me quit.
But I am this way now because there won’t be a terrible consequence for my actions. If you look at my saying or motto at the bottom of my posts, I have finally revealed who I am to myself.
It has carried into my church life now. I had a guy that I worked with for a while who told me that the reason people stay in the church is out of fear. I doubted that accusation at that time, but now that I look at myself and what’s going on in me, it seems to me that at least one reason for my sticking around is out of fear of disappointment. Fear of what’s going to happen to me. Fear in general.
But now I am losing that fear. I am less worried about the consequences. I am more willing to say no. I have taken upon me a spirit of “I don’t care.” I am losing my allegiance to things that should be dear to me. Work should be important, and my religion should too. I wonder who I am without fear?
I have no desire to really leave the church, but I am down on myself. I believe with all my heart in the Atonement of Christ and that it has the power to make up for my faults, but I am still down. Shouldn’t I be doing better? Why don’t I have the strength to be what I always thought I was?
Sorry, I just needed to vent.
borninit wrote:You’re right, I should talk to the Bishop and let him know where I am still struggling. He’s not a bad guy nor do I believe he wanted to offend me. But I’m still mad at him and don’t want to face him. It kind of feels good holding the grudge. I know, I’m digging my own pit.
I might not share the commitment struggles — I would focus on how he offended you and get that out of the way. Years ago, a noted LDS author said that offenses are like oatmeal in a bowl. If you leave the bowl unwashed, the oatmeal gets harder to clean off. If you wash it immediately, the oatmeal doesn’t stick and the problem can go away more quickly.
I would therefore suggest that. I have let the oatmeal stay and it has caused huge commitment problems for me.
And by the way, the sweet taste of harboring a grudge gets pretty bitter after a while. I know that first hand. And it can affect your behavior in ways you wouldn’t consciously think it might — it can lead to involuntary behavior that flows from the grudge-holding. I would nip it in the bud and talk to him — get it out of the way and help him see your perspective. One less burden to carry around with you when it’s over. I forecast it will go well.
But I would lay off any discussion of commitment or faith issues with the Bishop. That way lies problems.
Quote:My lack of enthusiasm for the church has been coming on for a while. It first it reared its ugly head when I realized I had and others have a personal relationship to God regardless of the church. Perhaps my testimony of the church is not solidified, because it seems to me that God and the Church are separated. For us Mormons who belong to the “True Church,” it shouldn’t be a separate thing. Or should it? Yet, there are millions of other people in the world who have a relationship with God and aren’t Mormon.
They do — you are right. They have close relationships to God without the Church. I would seek to nurture this, without necessarily rendering the Church entirely irrelevant in your life. It can create a sense of peace and independence which is wonderful, and liberating…
Quote:
This next part is going to paint me as immature and stuck-up, but I think it plays a part into my problem.Other factors that may be adding to this is my growing LACK of fear of consequences in my life. Lately with my wife making so much more money and my income not being needed as much, I have made it fairly clear to my employers that I don’t need to work, and if I get fired that I wouldn’t care. I have a fall-back plan. (It needs to be said here that I have always been a good employee and have always had a good work ethic.) They want me to stay and am willing to let some of my selfishness and rudeness slide, and I am willing to stay because I like the money and my wife won’t let me quit.
I also appreciate your brute honesty here. I will not condemn it or be judgmental about it one bit. I would be careful of this. It’s good that you recognize this lack of fear, which could also be construed as over-confidence. We are all vulnerable at any time to calamity — your wife’s job and your own. Remember that. I personally live in fear all the time, and have to curb my fear with faith-promoting thoughts as a conscious exercise. But in your case, I think a reminder is appropriate. Situations can change at any time….Also, use the extra money to some worthy purpose outside the Church if you want. I wish I could do that more than I do right now.
Quote:But now I am losing that fear. I am less worried about the consequences. I am more willing to say no. I have taken upon me a spirit of “I don’t care.” I am losing my allegiance to things that should be dear to me. Work should be important, and my religion should too. I wonder who I am without fear?
Someone who serves because they want to. Someone who goes to Church and abides by the commandments for their own reasons. Someone who is self-directed. Someone who sees through the manipulation tactics (usually born out of a desire for basically good results) of leaders and members of the Church. Someone who can sit in sacrament meeting and react with their own compass to the things being said. Someone who is liberated…provided lack of fear doesn’t turn into overconfidence or arrogance (I doubt the latter in your case, but one must be on guard).
Quote:I have no desire to really leave the church, but I am down on myself. I believe with all my heart in the Atonement of Christ and that it has the power to make up for my faults, but I am still down. Shouldn’t I be doing better? Why don’t I have the strength to be what I always thought I was?
Sorry, I just needed to vent.
I think you are growing. I am growing now in certain ways. Today I shared my contrarion ideas about moving with a former Bishop and current HPGL, as well as my belief that our reactivation efforts are rarely a good use of time when our Ward programs are not very good. I spoke to them with real conviction and they seemed to agree, and even built on my ideas. I realized that my personal angst and frustration has led to a new paradigm that is changing the cultural boundaries of our Church through the opinion leaders of our Ward.
Even if it didn’t I would have my own set of beliefs that I can live by in our Church. How liberating it is for me to not move people unless I want to, and NOT waste entire evenings badgering people who are showing no current desire in the Church. How much more fulfilling it has been to help out with our Cub program in the Ward simply because I want to, on an assignment basis with no strings attached, no need for a release request at some point….my angst and opinions have led to a state of affairs that I like in the Church. I think this change in your attitude may well lead to a similar freedom provided you don’t ixnay the Church out of it entirely, or let it turn to rebellion (which I doubt, but which is a risk for some people).
One quick piece of advice: If you have extra money right now, put 20% each month into a savings account of some kind. It is good to have at least three months salary in the bank, if possible, to help defray costs if something unexpected happens.
My advice is to try to compartmentalize some issues, and address things one at a time, with highest priority first. The bishop will likely agree with the spouse that is suggesting the most commitment and obedience to the church, and will push for that direction. It is their calling and what they are trained to do, even if marriage counseling is not their qualification.
But I have learned over the years that church and marriage are not a cause-and-effect relationship (meaning that lack of motivation at church does not create marriage problems, and marriage problems don’t create changes in belief about church, IMO). I see the two (marriage and one’s commitment to church) as metaphors, one is like the other … but is not literally connected with the other.
If you are seeing changes in both those relationships, there is likely an underlying issue that affects the 2, and addressing the underlying issues is what will help, but not thinking more church, more prayer, more temple, more callings will solve marriage problems necessarily. In fact, sometimes it is the opposite…it creates more issues for married couples to deal with.
Another quick piece of advice: – Instead of looking at what you are not motivated to do…make a list of some things you are motivated to do. What makes you happy? What do you want to do? What would you be motivated to get involved in and get passionate about?
If you share that list with your spouse, would you be willing to make concessions to attend church with her if she was willing to make concessions to support you in some of the things on your list?
Marriage should be a partnership where each person is supported and fulfilled to become better than if you were alone. Not expectations to change to meet the other person’s needs only.
The church should be something that supports you fulfill your potential and bring you the greatest happiness in this life. Not a chore you must do to earn eternity points.
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