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BC (before the church) I didn’t really drink much, I don’t care for beer or wine and I could take or leave mixed drinks. I was never much into alcohol, and that was partly because I believe I might have a genetic disposition to alcoholism based on family history. In fact, that is partly why I live that part of the WoW. Likewise, I never really cared for coffee – I love the smell but I can’t stand the taste. :eh: However, growing up we always had iced tea. I converted while I was in the army, where I didn’t like the tea (I don’t like sweet tea) and was sort of weened off it.Lately I’ve been considering the WoW. I still don’t believe it is a commandment and dislike the emphasis placed on it. I believe Brigham Young was as wrong about it as he was about the priesthood ban. And Brigham Young defined
hot drinksas coffee and tea. What about iced tea? I realize it was generally hot tea first, although there is the sun method. As a convert I assumed like most others that tea was tea, but I question that now – iced tea is clearly not a hot drink. Additionally, I have considered the health benefit of tea vs. soda. I don’t drink much soda and lately I have only done it for a caffeine boost maybe 2 or 3 times a month. A similar sized iced tea from the mini mart costs about the same as a soda, but has no sugar or other additives. I don’t like diet soda. So, I’m thinking of taking the iced tea plunge for my occasional caffeine boost.
Thoughts?
It’s your call, and there are multiple easy justifications that I think are solid. I certainly wouldn’t feel the need to mention it publicly or in an interview if you decide to drink it.
I don’t really have an opinion on this specific issue. But in general, I take church advice a a major input into the decision I have to make. Weigh it heavily, but also think independently. Out comes (eventuallY) something I feel right about. There are certain commandments that I accept as mostly black and white, but this isn’t one of them, although I live it in the black and white sense.
Not to worry, Ray, as I have stated here previously I am very much a “yes and no” guy in the TR/worthiness interview. One advantage of living where I do is that the likelihood of seeing someone at the local mini mart who even knows who I am, much less that I am Mormon, is quite low. Another justification that I did not mention is church acceptance of drinks like Mate – clearly a hot tea – in other parts of the world. I agree with you SD, there certainly are black and white commandments and others that are much more gray. I, too, live the WoW in a black and white sense for the most part (I do eat meat in summer and during other than famine
As you know I’m a convert as well and I had a very similar path to comply with the WoW. If you’ll indulge me to tell you my story… it’s not exciting. I had already made up my mind that I wouldn’t smoke, drink alcohol, or do drugs well before I ever heard the word “mormon.” In many ways the WoW was high on the list of things that attracted me to the church. There were only two things that were on the list that I had to make a decision about:
Coffee – no biggie. I only drank it a handful of times when I was at scout winter camp (an entire week outdoors in the winter) in hopes that it would keep me warm. First impression
:sick: I had to add alotof stuff to it to be able to choke it down. Not the biggest of temptations for me. Tea – I was probably in a similar situation as you were in. Iced tea at every meal, the sun steeped iced tea was the best. I had to give that up to join the church. Now I’m going to give an overly detailed account of how I gave up iced tea, like old dude giving unnecessary details rambling, so if you want to skip ahead I won’t blame you. I attended Pink Floyd’s Division Bell tour with a friend five days before my baptism (all I knew was that it was before my baptism which was looming, I decided to test my memory and looked up the dates so I could put the exact number of days it was). After the concert, on the way back to the car, a company was giving out free cans of iced tea. I think I ended up with two six packs, they were just tossing them out of a big truck. Cue the angel and the devil, one on each shoulder. I could drink the tea because I wasn’t baptized yet, I wasn’t obligated to obey the WoW until I was baptized.
I decided that if I was going to be baptized that I should go ahead and start living the WoW. It makes sense, one last weekend of “debauchery” isn’t the best demonstration of a broken heart and contrite spirit. I gave those free iced teas to my friend, a small gesture, but tea never became a temptation.
That experience even weighed heavily on me post faith crisis. I remember drinking a sample of some drink people were handing out in one of those huge membership warehouses. The drink in that tiny half-swallow swish cup had a hint of tea, I immediately spit it out. A complete overreaction but a reflex I had built up nonetheless.
More recently I got sick, very sick, and I was away from home. People recommended that I drink some chamomile tea along with some other types of herbal teas. I didn’t have a problem doing it and I do believe that it helped me get better. Now those types of teas probably weren’t specifically banned by the WoW but I wasn’t concerned with it one way or another. “…all wholesome herbs…” and all that. Besides, with my back up against that wall the tea was more medicinal than recreational.
I probably didn’t help your question. I don’t intend on drinking tea. I’m more interested in coffee (which some claim helps with staving off degenerative mental diseases) and wine (which some claim helps with heart health).
It seems like grape juice or other foods that are rich in antioxidants would be decent wine substitutes to receive similar benefits. I haven’t studied out what traits in coffee are thought to give what benefits coffee gives.
Black and green tea come from the same shrub called Camellia sinensis. The only difference is that black tea is Oxidized (fermented) while green tea is not. So if we disregard the temperature argument for a moment, then if tea is prohibited (camellia sinensis), then all forms of it is prohibited under the WoW
Now, if we believe that only drinks above a certain temperature (say 100 deg F?) are prohibited, then Ice tea is OK, but then so are any of a number of iced coffee drinks. It’s all or nothing if you argue temperature.
Frankly, Nibbler, I have never talked to a member who thought herbal tea was not kosher, although obviously there are some. I have had hot herbal teas, such a camomile or peppermint, but do not regularly drink them. I used to go to the Washington Temple fairly often (late 80s) where herbal teas were sold in the cafeteria. They also made great cookies there. Thanks for the insights Sheldon, I did not know the difference between black and green tea. Exactly what is considered tea, under Brigham Young’s definition, is part of my thought process. I can’t, however, dismiss the temperature thing because in everything I have ever read it always says that BY gave that definition specifically as applied to hot drinks. I have heard the argument that perhaps “hot” actually referred to very hot drinks, which apparently are not good for the throat, esophagus and stomach, perhaps even being related to cancer. As a boy I even recall my grandfather (born 1899 and far from being Mormon) advising us to be very careful eating/drinking very hot beverages or soups and that it was best to let them cool a bit because they were bad for us if they were too hot. I agree with you that hot is an all or nothing proposition, but since I don’t like coffee hot, I doubt I’d like it cold, either. (There’s those darn doubts again!
Quote:(AP) NANTUCKET, Mass. – Mitt Romney joins other observant Mormons in shunning alcohol and coffee. He apparently draws the line at ice cream.
The Republican presidential candidate ordered coffee ice cream at Millie’s restaurant in Nantucket Saturday when he bought treats for his staff and mingled with diners. His aides selected flavors including vanilla, rocky road, butter pecan and birthday cake ice cream.
It’s not clear that Romney took more than a bite or two as he shook hands and posed for pictures in the crowded and buzzing vacation eatery.
Mormons traditionally avoid alcohol and caffeine.
Romney aides shrugged off the selection, saying the candidate can have whatever kind of ice cream he likes.
I hope you have some iced tea if you would like some. And that anyone who observes this will be fine with it, like we apparently all were with Romney’s ice cream in 2012.
I admit my two cents would be different if the question had been, “Vodka?”
I remember an old discussion about WoW, and Brian really made some good points about tea (pay particular attention to page 6 of the thread): RE: Will the Word of Wisdom Ever Change?One part Brian wrote with his knowledge of tea and history:
Quote:In the English language, the word “tea” refers to a lot of different things. That makes it confusing for us Mormons.
We had a convert join the church and gave up coffee and tea with her baptism convenants, and then was struggling afterwards on these. Our bishop went to Costco and bought her a whole case of herbal teas…told her she can have those without breaking her covenant, and then encouraged her to sacrifice and live up to no coffee and black tea (he told her ice tea was OK too). It felt compassionate, like babysteps, like keeping her going on her progression of living the WoW.
I liked that approach. Very compassionate, and yet, teaching there are benefits to being strong willed. But if you accept where you are, and try to make progress on doing what you feel God wants…that is wisdom.
Like Ray said…you don’t have to admit it to anyone, and it is not going to be a deal breaker. Just do what you feel is right between you and God and meditate on whether you feel you’re justifying partaking of toxins you don’t need, or if you really have bigger issues and this is just one you choose from the cafeteria menu to not deal with right now.
I don’t think every bishop would do what the bishop did for that convert, nor do I think the bishop would recommend to all members the same…it was just a good approach in that one specific situation and that should be allowed. And that is what it is all about…choosing differently in different situations what is best for the individual…because there are no black and white one-approach answers to what works for every individual.
President McKay famously ate rum cake at a party because “the Word of Wisdom says nothing about eating it”. :thumbup: Old-Timer wrote:President McKay famously ate rum cake at a party because “the Word of Wisdom says nothing about eating it”.
:thumbup: Ha. DJ, just make chewing motions as you drink your tea.
I have heard that rum cake story before, and I always think about it at our family reunions (we’re the only members) because there’s always a rum cake there. The kids have eaten it before, not knowing what it was. I think the bottle would give away what I’m drinking, though…. Just an interesting little unrelated side note here: this past Sunday was fast Sunday and one of the priests who blessed the sacrament (we only have two active priests) unabashedly brought his water bottle up front with him and even took a drink as he was leaving to go back and sit with his family. Surprisingly I don’t think anyone said a word to him.
I’ve always heard that the alcohol cooks off anyway. nibbler wrote:I’ve always heard that the alcohol cooks off anyway.
Me, too, but I’ve also wondered sometimes after seeing someone eat some if that’s true.I would not drink it for three reasons: 1) If anyone saw me they might use it to make false judgements against me.
2) It would worry DW or I would be compelled to hide it – both of these would be bad.
3) I do not have any particular desire to drink it – just not my thing.
your mileage may vary.
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