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jmb275 wrote:LaLaLove wrote:
Other than the few sentences you provided in the original post I really admire and appreciate people who can show more genuine/deep thoughts than just the oversimplified givens.
Yeah, actually in my original post I had a different idea, but I don’t think anyone caught on. Some people went on to talk about the word “know” and that they didn’t believe in using it etc. In my original post I was trying to encapsulate the only things that are really “knowable” i.e. “I know that the church is a church” etc. I wasn’t trying to be sarcastic, only to state what is actually knowable.In any case, my F&T meeting was okay (I read through most of it). We have about 5 kids under 10 get up and recite a whole laundry list “God, Jesus, church, prophet, parents” are “true.” It was cute, but I felt bad for them that they had been conditioned to say these thing. It’s also unfortunate to me, from an epistemological standpoint, that the word “know” has devolved as it has in Mormonism.
In any case, one woman got up and said that she knew that “all truth” was in our church. That, I thought, was very unfortunate for her.
Yes..I think pretty much the same way! I know the Church is an organization..I know it is a church..I know it brings happiness in some peoples lives etc.
I know personal revelation is personal-for the individual. But honestly sometimes members do get carried away in F&T meetings and all meetings by making HUGE generlizations like the whole world is wicked .. The Church stands alone .. The gospel is for everyone .. We are fortunate to have all truth .. When I personally think none of these things are cool to say esp. that the whole world is evil!(No Way!). I see a lott of us vs. them .. I hope this attitide changes in the years to come. .But at the same time I guess I just need to stomach it or speak up w/o seeming confrontational. B/C I often feel bad for wanting people to take off the rose colored glasses for a minute. Obviously I need to put a more positive spin on all of these things that irritate me!
LaLaLove wrote:Obviously I need to put a more positive spin on all of these things that irritate me!
I have the same trouble… in fact I have to honestly admit that I find F&T meetings unbearable. I was so relieved to be able to miss church today due to a stomach bug that is spreading through our children… I actually thought “anything is better than sitting through another F&T meeting!” I really wish I didn’t feel so negatively about it, but I find it so hard to sit through those Sundays in particular. If any of you can come up with some helpful F&T meetings coping strategies, let me know!
asha wrote:LaLaLove wrote:Obviously I need to put a more positive spin on all of these things that irritate me!
I have the same trouble… in fact I have to honestly admit that I find F&T meetings unbearable. I was so relieved to be able to miss church today due to a stomach bug that is spreading through our children… I actually thought “anything is better than sitting through another F&T meeting!” I really wish I didn’t feel so negatively about it, but I find it so hard to sit through those Sundays in particular. If any of you can come up with some helpful F&T meetings coping strategies, let me know!
I feel like I should make the comment that up until a few months ago I felt really good about F&T meetings. In four years I have never gotten up and bore a testimony. I was ready to do it .. I was encouraging my mom and sister to come to Church with me, then I started “researching” my religion and ..- Now I honestly don’t want to invite anyone .. Just in case they have to go through what I am going through now.
The meetings are now unbearable for me as well. Except for my MIL..She says the normal things but she always has some beautiful things added on, I actually like hearing her most of the time.
Anyway, I second that. Any advice anyone?
The most frustrating thing to me about these discussions has nothing to do with any of the comments – more just that F&T Meeting can be absolutely wonderful and empowering. It generally takes a Bishop who is willing to stand up and take control of the spirit of the meeting, per se – to ask repeatedly that the testimonies be focused on principles of the Gospel and God and Christ and the things which people both know AND believe. That’s the basic counsel that has been given “from the top” – and I am convinced it is because the top leadership also shares some of the same concerns that are being expressed here. It’s why direction has been given that F&T Meeting is not for children to speak. Sorry; end of rant. It’s just that it can be such a beautiful meeting when conducted properly.
So, my only advice to everyone here is:
Model the way it should be. Get up and share ONE simple principle that you know or believe is important and beautiful – the need for charity toward all, the concept that God loves us (or that God really is love), or that forgiveness is a wonderful gift, or something. Keep it short and sweet and heartfelt, then sit down. If it catches on, great; if not, fine. At least it was what it was supposed to be for you and those who “get it”.
Ours was wonderful. I count people, and grin at the kids and love the families. During one testimony, I was simply arrested and transfixedWell, on a more practical, less idealistic note, I read through the meetings. That has kept me being able to bear it. The worst is when I find myself subconsciously rolling my eyes 🙄 I then sit and wonder if anyone saw me. I don’t recommend rolling your eyes!!One thing that comes to my mind is to do what Henry Eyring often did – that is, give yourself a sermon. When someone gets up and starts talking, you try to understand the basic principle they are trying to convey. You then can, in your mind, dig up everything you know about the topic and give yourself a sermon. I must confess, I don’t do this very well, and it is harder than it seems. It’s easier to roll your eyes!
I’d like to bear my testimony that I know that which I thought I once knew no longer exists. I believe Joseph Smith got caught up in his own fantasies to where they became reality for himself and those who were good God-fearing people. I know that President Monson has a lot of clean-up work to do and can help make the transition in doctrine smoothly if he so chooses. I know that Jesus Christ is someone I want to study and would like to find first hand knowledge of him and not just some handed down folklore. I know that who I thought God was, is not the same for everyone and not even the same as he once was for me. I’d further like to bear my testimony that having had every bit of gospel knowledge stripped from my memory as being absolute truth, I’m able to come to understanding about myself and who I am and what I want to be without the constraints of fear and guilt of becoming slewn into outer darkness with those of the dissenters before me. I say these things in the name of Joseph Christ. Amen @What? Very nice, I love it, you speak from the soul. Good on you! Hopefully we’ll be able to battle through the tough times and find reasons to remain “in the church but not of the church.”
Old-Timer wrote:Get up and share ONE simple principle that you know or believe is important and beautiful – the need for charity toward all, the concept that God loves us (or that God really is love), or that forgiveness is a wonderful gift, or something. Keep it short and sweet and heartfelt, then sit down.
Well put, Ray. I’ve done that in a meeting after a long story that I’m sure was elongated by nervousness on the person, so I just stood and said, “I believe Jesus died for me, and that helps me feel peace, in the name of Jesus Christ, Amen.” and sat down. I felt good about it, not in a chastising way to others, simply in a way to state what a simple testimony can be.
Yeah, fast and testimony can be really good or really bad. Rarely in the middle. I think we need to train the heck out of our bishops on this and have them remove people from the stand who can’t give a talk or bear a testimony. I think every ward needs to have two or three people tossed off the stand for incompetence. Once that happens, I think the members will shape up a good bit. oh, please, pleasedon’t throw members off the stand. teach, exemplify, but don’t remove people who are trying to speak from their hearts. anyhow, that gives the bish too much power Thank you, trill. This was one of my ultimate pet peeves when I was an active member of the mainstream church. Little children don’t “know” didly-squat. They’re not old enough to separate fantasy from reality. I have seen mothers stand by their 4-5 year olds and “coach” them on Fast Sunday……”I know the church is true”….”I know Joseph Smith is a prophet”…..
🙄 That’s just messed up and a tradition of mainstream mormonism that I hope is not still going on.
Maybe the term “I know” could evolve to “I believe”….. but still….IMHO kids should not be brainwashed that way.
Holy mackerel….I’m starting to sound like you guys and I’m the resident fundamentalist.
😆 Bruce in Montana wrote:This was one of my ultimate pet peeves when I was an active member of the mainstream church.
Little children don’t “know” didly-squat. They’re not old enough to separate fantasy from reality.
Maybe children don’t know, maybe they can’t analyze. But when I was eight years old, I was filled with living fire from the crown of my head to the soles of my feet, when my Dad said “receive the Holy Ghost”.And I *knew*.
HiJolly
Wow… I was a convert later in life and didn’t experience that at such a young age.
That’s wonderful and I didn’t mean to belittle someone’s spiritual experience.
Thanks for sharing that.
May we all become as little children again.
I think that’s a requirement…
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