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I’m not sure the use of the word “KNOW” needs to be too narrowly defined. We say it in normal day activities all the time. Like if I say, “I know I left my keys on the table” – then it turns out they’re in my coat pocket and I just forgot. That’s not dishonest, that’s just me expressing my understanding of something at that time, which could change at some later time.
Knowing the church is true as far as you understand it today can be an honest statement. And can lead to faith of acting in a way that is compliant with that testimony. Especially with kids…they take things on faith and honestly believe it with the limited ability to understand what they are saying, and then later in life as they progress to another stage of faith, they need to reassess if they really know it still.
Although I don’t get too caught up in what kids say in testimonies. I think mostly the motive is they like the attention and they like how it makes their parents proud of them (talking of young kids 10 and under).
wordsleuth23 wrote:I don’t think it’s dishonest, because people that say that often feel that way. Just because they think they know doesn’t mean they do, but its semantics. How do people define “know”; a lot of people say it out of habit when they are really saying something like belief or confidence. Katzpur, what is the difference between saying you “know” things about God, and saying you know the Church is true? They are both claims of knowledge that are based off of faith, not evidence. They strike me as being in the same category.
As long as a person “believes” that he “knows,” I’d say there is no difference.
I have no problem with anybody claiming to “know” the Church is true as long as that person is sincere.I just don’t think all that many of them have really given it all that much thought, especially the ones who, by the time they were 6 or 8 years old, had already said it a couple of dozen times in testimony meeting to the delight of their parents. I seriously think that a lot of people who say, “I know the Church is true” have been saying it so long that it’s just second nature to them to say it. I came across another posting on Mormonmatters.org that I thought was enlightening to this discussion. http://mormonmatters.org/2009/02/13/what-is-truth/http://mormonmatters.org/2009/02/13/what-is-truth/” class=”bbcode_url”> One extract of this states:
Quote:In the 19th century, when sailors would get their bearings on ships, they would say that their heading was “true” if it would lead them to their destination. If they found that their heading was not leading them to their destination, their heading was considered “false”.
In 19th century America, when people would debate about religion, they would often argue if certain beliefs were “true” (or if they were useful for steering your life so that you would end up in heaven).
When others bear testimony they know the church is true, that could very well mean what they are saying is similar to the sailors believing the path to their destination is the “true” path because it gets them to where they want to go, not that it is perfect, or infallible, or easy, just that it will get them to where they want to go. That is the faith of the person on the journey, and what they believe in at the time they are starting their journey.
Some of these comments deal with children bearing testimony. This is a great exercise. Good idea! I’d like to bear my testimony, I know this church is an amazing institution which, at the best of times helps and aids many and at its worst permanently harms many, it has a great power to influence people, that is not always used wisely, but when it is, does great things.
I know Joseph Smith was charismatic and intelligent, started a religion to fill a missing niche in society, and was very convincing in building it. I think that as he accumulated power that he over stepped the bounds of good behavior and used his power benefit himself.
I know that President Monson is….well I don’t know anything about president Monson, but I think that he is humbled by the position he has found himself in, and really wants to help people
I know that Jesus Christ taught things that have helped billions of people immensely and given hope to the hopeless and comfort to the needy. His life and teachings have caused many people to do a lot of good.
I know that God is…I have no idea. He is rumored to have created the earth. He is used by men to persuade people to do things. He is a resource that people use when they want fate or random chance to be turned in their favor.
I say these things…
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