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Why does this loving Mormon God seem so willing to let good people drift into apostasy? Why when all it would take is a real verifiable answer to a sincere prayer to keep them going. Why is he so willing to let good men and women stumble around and agonize trying to divine the truth in the church? For me I have an answer but I think it is a valid question. If I had a child lost in the forest and she was calling out to me for help. I would not remain silent. I would not put numerous conditions on that child before I would answer them. I would run to the sound of their voice as quickly as possible for I would sense the danger and fear they were in.
Do we do a disservice to God and ourselves by applying all sorts of characteristics to him that there is little or no evidence of? Why do we not even hold god to the same standard as we do ourselves as parents?
I believe it is much better to realize God may be there but does not interfere at all. To claim he finds this lost toy or heals this person is a mockery to the millions of others who suffer pain and torment with no relief. There may be a purpose to this existence but it surely is not to sing constant praises to the Mormon God of indifference. I acknowledge God and even desire to know him and worship him if required and beneficial, but I believe it is the work of men to require obedience and sacrifice to a God who remains so silent, or doles out answers in such minute portions as to keep you forever starving for nourishment.
I am sure there are those who feel God speaks to them all the time and maybe he does, but then I ask why is he so particular about who he speaks to?
This is a really tough one.I truly feel that God has helped me through small situations when I felt desperate, like helping me to find my keys in time to leave for work ( a tender mercy). But on some of the major issues in my life, he has been silent. I personally believe that God loves us very deeply, and that he is our father. I think that because he may be omniscient, he knows when we are truly in mortal danger as opposed to when we need to scrape our knees up a little bit (and therefore lets us fall out of the trees, and get a little bit roughed up). I wonder if with our short perspective, we over blow the whole “apostasy” thing, when maybe we are just on spiritual journeys that will eventually get us to our destination, but seem to include winding roads that we didn’t expect. Then again, I have very recently felt that God doesn’t love me as much as he loves some of his other children. I’m kind of lost on this issue as well.
NOTE: I’ve noticed that I like to use “we” and “our”–I don’t really intend to project my experience on other people or assume what they think and feel–it’s just the way I philosophize.
PS, Cadence, Star Trek got me through middle school. I love your avatar. Cadence wrote:To claim he finds this lost toy or heals this person is a mockery to the millions of others who suffer pain and torment with no relief.
I agree, Cadence.Except, I believe that God is in all of us, as Jesus taught… One of Jesus’ teachings often overlooked, especially in regard to the name of our church…
“And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answer them & said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation: Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.”-Luke 17:20-21 Mormonism isn’t the only sect that screwed up this interpretation, trying to make savlation an external thing, when it’s only internal.
We are supposed to be answering each others’ prayers.
But when that doesn’t happen, as Viktor E. Frankl explained, suffering is more bearable when you find meaning in it.
Quote:I am sure there are those who feel God speaks to them all the time and maybe he does, but then I ask why is he so particular about who he speaks to?
It depends on how you interpret communication from God.I imagine you’ve already felt God & that everyone has at one time or another.
I think God is passion – appreciation, resonating spiritually. When you watch a movie that touches you, that’s feeling God. When you sit still, breath & just take it all in & feel a rush within you, that’s God. When you care for & love yourself & others, that’s God.
I understand totally what you’re saying, but I simply will not mock or dismiss someone else’s experience that they feel have involved God in some way – even in ways that seem inconsequential to others. I have absolutely no clue why some find keys and others die in needless accidents leaving six kids to be torn about by that death, and it’s tempting to discount the finding of the keys or dismiss any divine intervention – but I have had experiences that I attribute to the divine that are between those extremes, and I don’t want my experiences mocked or dismissed. Therefore, with regard to this particular question, I am left with, “I don’t understand.”
I’ve come to be fine with that answer.
I realize how vexing and important these questions can be, and I’ve settled that I don’t know the answer. It could be that He’s far less involved than our attempts at reducing cognitive dissonance allow. It may mean that he works through others (angels, humans) who, like all less-than-godlike creatures, screw up and don’t follow-through on His commands and suggestions. So, although He wants a lot of good to happen, it doesnt’ occur due to human frailties. Personally, I’m happier just accepting that we don’t live in a just world, and that my challenge is with coping with what hits us in this life out of left field — and supporting others as best I can who suffer the same fate.
Featherina wrote:Cadence wrote:To claim he finds this lost toy or heals this person is a mockery to the millions of others who suffer pain and torment with no relief.
I agree, Cadence.Except, I believe that God is in all of us, as Jesus taught… One of Jesus’ teachings often overlooked, especially in regard to the name of our church…
“And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answer them & said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation: Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.”-Luke 17:20-21 Mormonism isn’t the only sect that screwed up this interpretation, trying to make savlation an external thing, when it’s only internal.
We are supposed to be answering each others’ prayers.
But when that doesn’t happen, as Viktor E. Frankl explained, suffering is more bearable when you find meaning in it.
Quote:I am sure there are those who feel God speaks to them all the time and maybe he does, but then I ask why is he so particular about who he speaks to?
It depends on how you interpret communication from God.I imagine you’ve already felt God & that everyone has at one time or another.
I think God is passion – appreciation, resonating spiritually. When you watch a movie that touches you, that’s feeling God. When you sit still, breath & just take it all in & feel a rush within you, that’s God. When you care for & love yourself & others, that’s God.
this.once we understand the idea that god is within is in some meaningful way, it completely transforms expectations from prayer. I don’t pray to have an external god fix things ‘out there’, but rather, to have an internal god fix things ‘in here’, so that I’m better informed as to what to do. When I’m still, then answers can come; not predictive answers about something ‘out there’, although forsight is possible, but rather, to have the “in”sight that comes from being centered.
If that means I can better find car keys or a toy that is lost as a result of centering prayer, so be it — it’s quite likely that the god within can search the memory for subtle clues that the conscious mind ignores. Communion with the god within can also leverage the subtlety of interpersonal, nonverbal and subconscious communication so that I can be better able to feel the needs of another human being.
When I am one with these feelings, and capable of acting in support of another human being, who knows if I am not acting for god in that moment.
“Why” is a difficult question for me to find answers for, unless it is “Why does it matter to me?”. Trying to think of Why God does something or doesn’t is a mystery to me. That doesnt mean I give up believing God exists, or give up on prayer, but I change the questions I’m asking.
I think Featherin and Wayfarer are onto something with their comments. I need to pray about those thoughts some more.
Cadence wrote:
I believe it is much better to realize God may be there but does not interfere at all.I like this thought. I can get behind this.
God doesn’t believe in “No Child Left Behind.” Hawkgrrl, I’m not sure I’m understanding what you mean. Would you elaborate? Yesterday I took a break from clerking and went to SS class. The young man teaching (we’re in a YSA branch) was talking about Enos and prayer and made quite forcefully the comment that he’d had an answer to every prayer. I’m 67 and can’t recall an answer to any prayer or even the feeling that anyone was listening so I waited a polite period of time and left. I thought I’d come to terms with being on my own but I guess not. GB, just something to consider: I would have raised my hand and said I think it’s wonderful that he’s had that type of experience – but that I myself and many others I know have not. I would add that part of the trial of my own faith is having to endure to end without that type of constant reinforcement.
I would have done that mostly so others in the class who were more like me than him in regard to answers to prayers (and I guarantee there were more like you and me than like him in that class) could here someone say out loud that it’s OK to not have that type of experience with prayer.
Having said all of that, I am NOT criticizing you for leaving without saying something. Each of us is a different situation than the rest of us, and we each have to do what is best for each of us in our individual situations. If it was best for you to leave, it was best for you to leave. Period.
Or, another way to do this is to ask a question to the class. Does everyone had the same experience?
Was your experience different & how was it different?
This way he couldn’t get all defensive.
Mike from Milton.
GBSmith wrote:The young man teaching (we’re in a YSA branch) was talking about Enos and prayer and made quite forcefully the comment that he’d had an answer to every prayer.
Well, I used to define non-answers as an answer (for example, Elder Scott’s talk that sometimes the answer is Yes, sometimes No, and sometimes withholding an answer for us to learn something.).
So, if non-answers are considered answers…GB, like the SS teacher, has had every prayer answered. Right?
:wtf: However, to be honest, after my little TBM bubble burst, I no longer think that way. I think there are just a lot of times there are no answers, but I allow others to think what they want about their experiences. And I hope there will sometimes be answers for me. But if not, I still benefit from praying for answers so I can work it out in my mind, or so I can keep believing someone is listening despite the silence.
How many prayers had Hannah offered before she got an answer? How about Sarah? Or Zachariah? There must have been a lot of non-answers since they kept asking. If they’d gotten “No” they wouldn’t have had any reason to continue with their petitions. Clearly, years of supplication seemed to receive only silence in response.
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