"If we stop asking questions" – Pres. Uchtdorf

[Anonymous]

cwald wrote:

Boy, I don’t know Wayfarer—-I do see it that way. I hope you are wrong….but, yeah, I can see some members reading it that way.

I guess that is why I get grumping about nuanced answers and statements, especially from prophets. If they really want to make a change in the system, they are going to have to speak a little more plainly?

Cwald, don’t get me wrong, I think there is a lot of hope in the teachings of Pres Uchtdorf. But to dance on this like a lot of exmos and hopeful noms do to say he is encouraging independent thought outside of the bounds the Lord has set, forget it.

But to give the benefit of the doubt, can he really say anything else? Do you think he will deny the 14f outright? No, that would be too divisive. He is on very smart guy, he isnt going to risk censure, nor does he have to.

Just sayin’

[Anonymous]

wayfarer wrote:

Just sayin’

I think he’s built up the mormo street cred to be able to say this to remind people to keep things in perspective, but he’s not really saying drastic change within the church.

I must admit, it is good to hear it from the right sources.

[Anonymous]

Thanks for bringing the conversation back to reality. I’m not sure what everyone is getting all excited about and I was beginning to think I was missing something … again. I mean, I know Pres Uchtdorf is a great guy and everything, but when we hear a church leader talk about “thinking” or “asking questions”, I’m pretty confident that it’s understood that it is understood that the “thinking” and the “questioning” have to be within certain pre-defined bounds, and that certain “answers” are automatically disallowed. We all know what happened when Elder Poelman (may he rest in peace) tried going outside the boundaries, and who wants to go through that?

[Anonymous]

there is something really important in what Pres Uchtdorf says here that comes as close to heresy as one can get and still be TBM:

Dieter F. Uchtdorf wrote:

It might be wise to look at the handbooks and even the scriptures not as checklists or detailed scripts but rather as opportunities to prepare our minds and hearts to receive divine inspiration for our responsibilities.

inspiration to our “minds and hearts” being superior to scripture? scripture not commanding in all things but rather guidelines?

[Anonymous]

I think scripure has always had a “trigger for personal revelation” purpose that I’ve heard now and then in the Church. Of course, you hear more scripture thumping about how things should be for everyone half the time, but I’ve long since considered the scriptures to be revelation triggers…as Ray said — it’s how you read it personally that matters, and yes, I think that’s true for just about everyone. Just keep it to yourself around Church…)

[Anonymous]

The challenge for some is that this needs to be put up against Elder Oaks’ talk on personal revelation v priesthood revelation.

It seems we are taught to not be commanded in all things, to use our inspiration above checklists in scriptures, BUT…only if our personal revelation is consistent with what the checklists that are being given to us. If we get different answers, we are on dangerous ground.

That is how it sounds, and can be hard to process. How do we reconcile these things?

I think that is part of our growth to figure this out. I have to separate out things to understand it. I have to have a mindset of asking questions and seeking my own inspiration over asking to be told what to do (commandments), but using my new paradigms to realize the value that is in the commandments and the actions that I do which are in line with the priesthood revelation. I also use this to see the core messages are in line with my paradigms, and perhaps the fringes are problematic, and not let the fringe issues, or tenets of the gospel doctrines, to create so much cog dis to my core principles.

There is a balance of individuality and being true to my inner thoughts, while trying to fit in with other imperfect people to function as a group. If it was simple, it would not be fulfilling or rewarding.

[Anonymous]

Quote:

It might be wise to look at the handbooks and even the scriptures not as checklists or detailed scripts but rather as opportunities to prepare our minds and hearts to receive divine inspiration for our responsibilities.

That’s the part that I think, for me, informs the entire message. In a way, he’s saying personal revelation is more important than the words of prophets when it comes to our own lives and responsibilities.

I know he’s not saying everyone should ignore the CHI, the scriptures and the words of living prophets – but, imo, he is saying ALL of us should be prophets in our own lives – and I really, really, really like that.

[Anonymous]

Heber13 wrote:

The challenge for some is that this needs to be put up against Elder Oaks’ talk on personal revelation v priesthood revelation…

If I’m around when the two line of communication doctrine is brought up, I will certainly use this to balance things out.

[Anonymous]

Heber13 wrote:

How do we reconcile these things? I think that is part of our growth to figure this out.

There’s a simple solution. Sometimes the right answer is to make a clean break and cut through the Gordian knot.

[Anonymous]

Ray, what you mentioned was similar to what my dad informed me about receiving revelation for ourselves. Much of what we receive that conflicts with the Church is meant more for us. Not for the Church. Just thought I would leave my point of view there.

[Author]

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