Illegal or not?

[Anonymous]

angel333 wrote:

Would someone let me know what law of the land Im suppose to obey and what law of the land Im not suppose to obey so i can have a clean Temple recommend.

Hey Angel,

Typing on a keyboard is such a limited way to communicate, but I will try my best. I wanted to add that I see through a lens of the buffet or cafeteria of Mormonism. Noboby does everything that we are taught all the time. Everyone has their favorite dishes in the grand buffet. This isn’t very apparent as long as you perceive that those around you are eating the same things as you are but can get more and more jarring as your tastes differ from the norm.

I have a few examples. Pres. Kimball said in a talk once that he hopes that church members won’t play with face cards. I have been told by some that filing for bankruptcy is not being honest with my fellow men and will put temple recommends in jeopardy. I was recently asked by some new converts what type of tea they could drink because they are getting conflicting and confusing opinions on the subject. My MIL thinks birth control is a sin (SWK once compared it to idolatry).

If we were to poll an average ward on the above topics, I imagine that there would be a range of opinions. I hope that we can agree that all of these people can also hold “clean” TRs.

The major frustration for me is the members that believe that their understanding of the Gospel is THE GOSPEL and then try to impose that understanding on others.

Now to get back to the subject at hand. The church does believe in sustaining the law. The church also teaches sustaining its leaders. There is a dichotomy here in your scenario and different people can deal with that as they may.

Finally the church as I understand it is pretty liberal about allowing members to have divergent believes, OTOH the church (at least locally) can be almost draconian about public expressions of those divergent views. I wish that we could have public dialogues about differing views but knowing that this is not culturally accepted – I do my best to keep myself out of trouble.

I am not one that expects to change anything. I do respect people that take risks to make change. MLK is a good example of just such a person and I believe that there are similar people working to change the church on the inside. As for me, I am just trying to navigate the buffet/cafeteria of Mormonism the best that I can.

P.S. I have participated at StayLDS for years. Sometimes I will bring up a topic and expect a certain response from the group. Sometimes, I will get that response and sometimes not. We are definately diverse but for the most part we manage to be respectful and supportive.

[Anonymous]

Hi angel. I’m in between on this. Mostly because I am as passive or non confrontational as they come. Except for 1 situation. The physical and emotional welfare of those around me. In that situation I have been known to throw my whole body spirit might and mind into it until the situation changes to safe to protect people, even complete strangers.

However that has resulted in numerous physical and emotional scares to me that I wouldn’t want to push on anyone for taking the stances I have, even though I have no regrets.

In this situation it is best to talk to them

Privately and respectfully to make sure they understand not really just the law but the spirit of the law and the safety of others. If he or anyone else regardless of their position still recommended others into possible harms way I would have taken it to the authorities just because it is my moral obligation to not let things pass by that are causing people’s safety to be at stake. I personally couldn’t live with myself if I didn’t actively speak up in a nice way and say something and do all I can to make sure that the situation was brought back to safe.

Outside of that I let people be people, we all have different beliefs and priorities. I personally just can’t call myself decent or a good person if I stand by I. Safety, harassment, or belittling of others and do nothing.

There are positive ways to do many things, but if push comes to shove and people safety is concerned then it needs be what it needs be. I don’t think personally it reached that level yet. Only if the person was guilt tripping people to come to church in that situation would it have reached that level.

Otherwise I would have kept it private.

Don’t feel to bad. We all are people that learn how to interact with one another throughout out lives and most of the time we can’t even treat animals right and safety let alone humans.

Attention–humans in board–learning in progress.

[Anonymous]

I have discovered from all of your comments that I was wrong.I went and apologized to everyone on facebook that I offended.I now will go back into hiding and keep my feelings to myself where they belong anyway .It was nice meeting your people.I apologize once again. I would delete this whole thread but I don’t know how. Maybe someone who knows how will do it for me.

[Anonymous]

I hope it’s okay with you that we leave this thread here and open. We all learn a lot from what people post, and I think there are a lot of lurkers who never comment who also can learn from your experience – both from the initial response and from your humble last comment.

I just want to add one thing about which I feel strongly:

Your voice needs to be heard. There needs to be someone who will question bad decisions by leaders. We need to hear all the instruments in the orchestra, so to speak, or the sound we hear won’t be as beautiful as it could be.

I think all we are saying is that the method you used could have been better – and I think there is a wonderful lesson in that for ALL of us here. ALL of us need to remember that tone and context and specific words matter – and ALL of us need to keep trying to get better and better at how we respond, online and in person. I know I can be too blunt sometimes, so there has been a good lesson in this thread for me, as well.

For that opportunity to re-learn something, I thank you – sincerely. I hope you continue to read our posts and, whenever you feel like you have a unique perspective to share, comment in the discussion threads.

[Anonymous]

FWIW, I’m disturbed by the actions of your bishop. It’s one thing for an individual to chose to ignore the law in that situation. It’s an entirely different matter for someone in a position of authority to ask other people to put their safety at risk; especially knowing how many people strive to do exactly what their bishop says (as is evident in your facebook replies). There is no question he was in the wrong.

After considering it and reading all the responses to this post, I have to say that I’m glad you posted your reply on facebook. Personally, I wouldn’t have done it. That’s just not something I would do. However, I’m often glad there are people out there who do things that I wouldn’t do. I’m not saying we should start picking facebook fights. But I can see the possibility of someone in your ward feeling like they HAD to go to church because the bishop said so. And maybe your reply helped them see that “it’s not that simple”.

[Anonymous]

angel333 wrote:

I have discovered from all of your comments that I was wrong.I went and apologized to everyone on facebook that I offended.I now will go back into hiding and keep my feelings to myself where they belong anyway

In my reading of this thread, I don’t think anyone called you out as being “wrong.” People offered their input on how they would have interpreted your actions or what they would have done were they in your position but that doesn’t mean you’re not still entitled to feel like you made the right call for yourself. If you’re just wanting positive feedback, I don’t think that’s realistic or fair. But I think you got some valuable, well-thought-out, considerate responses whether they agreed with you or not.

If you truly feel like you need to “go back into hiding,” etc. because folks engaged in a conversation about your post, that’s entirely your decision but no one here is telling you to keep your feelings to yourself.

Whatever you decide to do, best of luck to you.

[Anonymous]

I don’t think there’s anything wrong with what you did. If people get offended that’s their fault.

I personally may not have posted on the ward forum myself just because I don’t like those kinds of things, but I DEFINITELY would have called the bishop and said what gives?

I was in a ward once where the bishop thought things got cancelled too quickly when it snowed, so we had church one Sunday when the local authorities were telling people to stay home (this was in the early days of internet, so no FB.) We did go to church because we thought if the bishop says it’s ok, then it’s ok. It was scary driving to church and we were sliding all over the place. A family in the ward got in a terrible accident on the way to church and the bishop ended up sending everyone home after SM. Believe me, that never happened again.

[Anonymous]

Angel333, I agree with the comment what the bishop did was wrong by others in danger like that. So far I haven’t had any bishops that have done that before, but I might in the future. Welcome to our group and I hope you’ll stay with those with time to come.

[Anonymous]

Ever since I got on my own “clock” with the church, these kinds of decisions got a lot simpler.

If I think its wrong to drive on the roads, I’m not driving even if my Bishop says the roads are fine.

When I raised my hand to sustain him, it meant I agreed to let him have his turn at leading the Ward. In other words, I didn’t object. I did not agree to do everything that he says.

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