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Hi! This is my first post. I am so glad there are other people out there who might understand me. I am at crossroad. I am a convert and I believe and love the gospel with every fiber of my being— the Book of Mormon, Joseph Smith, WoW, everything. I am not liking the church too much right now.
I don’t like that
church is 3 freaking hours. Since I joined the church 20+ years ago, I have always hated going to church. It is boring. I was married in the temple and left my entire family out. I just found out that this is a POLICY and not a doctrine that the church came up with in 1960. How can they preach family and yet hurt soooooo many families? (That was rhetorical). Members can’t think for themselves. My son’s Seminary was awful— the teacher let his wife do it sometimes or have the kids do the lesson or just read dryly from the manual when he did do it. I found out he really did not want the calling, but said that “you are not supposed to turn down a calling”. Also, I have a son with some mild special needs and one of them is that he has a hard time waking up because he needs a lot of sleep. I asked the Bishop if we could do home study and I was told we could not because there was a Seminary class available. It’s like we have to fit in the mold. Why can’t I turn down a calling that I would truly hate? Not every calling, just one I would hate. Why can’t I choose what is best for myfamily? And we have to do genealogy, find someone for the missionaries to teach, clean the church, attend the temple, have FHE, participate in service projects, have a calling, read the scriptures every day. I can’t do all of that and I feel like a failure.
But
here is my crossroad. I hate, hate, hate going to church. I don’t want to leave the church. Like I said, I truly believe this is the true church of Jesus Christ. But I do not want to be tortured anymore. After a long discussion with my best friend (non-member), I decided that my kids and I would attend only Sacrament every Sunday and when we get home, we would have our own Sunday School. (The kids also hate going to church— I have not been a good influence). This is the first Saturday that I have not dreaded that the following day is Sunday. I am actually looking forward to going to church for the first time in I can’t tell you. But I have 20+ years of church guilt…. I am supposed to do this, I am supposed to do that. Am I wrong? Did Satan win? Why can’t the church see that they are torturing us? Why should the gospel of Jesus Christ be a burden and not a joy?(Not rhetorical. All opinions welcome.) Thank you!!!!!!!
What does your Wife say? Does she feel the same way? Can the 2 of you talk & come to an agreement about your situation?
A few months ago a member of our Bishopric talked in our HP class about accepting callings.
My question to him was, can we turn a calling down? He & others in the class said yes.
There are always situations where Bishops are not aware of what’s happening in families.
I would make a list of calls that you would accept & give them options. (or take a break)
The choice is always yours to make. Good Luck.
Many of us have been through similar situations.
Hi. I am female and divorced. My ex follows the rules without thinking. If that works better for you, go for it. IMO taking some time to step back and figure out what makes you happy and laying out ground rules for your participation can only help – especially if you want to stay in the Church. As far as your questions go, you aren’t wrong and nobody won anything. The gospel is a burden because of the way the church implements it. Too much focus on assigning blame and demanding things from people (works) and not enough focus on helping people follow Jesus Christ (grace).
Welcome to the forum. I’m glad you found us. Let go of the guilt. The gospel of Jesus Christ is very simple. The church is a whole different thing. One of the best things I ever did was recognize that difference and separate the two. Let your focus be on the gospel. Does your ex go to the same ward? Are there custody things like every other weekend, etc.? You may not be concerned about his feelings, but don’t put the children in the middle of a tug-o-war with you, your ex and the church.
Go enjoy sacrament meeting.
Good points. I learned from a doctor recently that teens grow during their sleep. That is when hormones are released, so they need their sleep. I agree with most of the other concerns you have. The way I cope with the boredom is to take a Kindle book with me and I read through it. I feel a bit guilty when I do it, but it’s more tolerable than listening. I don’t have an easy solution when your wife is TBM. At times I have also taken off during periods when my family are engaged in their own meetings and gone somewhere I could be alone with my thoughts, in the car.
The key is to minimize the impact the experience has on you while still remaining technically active.
Turn down callings as you wish. Someone needs to train the leaders that the best organizations evolve when the right people are in the right positions, based on their skills and passions. Some church leaders still don’t get it. Also, don’t be afraid to help them be “inspired” — TELL them where you want to serve, those aspects of church service you don’t like. I would tell them to keep me away from clerical types of roles, and to get me going on a project sort of basis, to avoid teaching, and priesthood leadership. Expect a certain amount of judgmentalism from some leaders, but write it off as their lack of knowledge about how to align passion with organizational interests, and recognize they are still learning. It’s their shortcoming, not yours.
Welcome to the board. I’ve posted some thoughts on your intro. Feel free to ignore what is not useful to you. 🙂 Quote:I was married in the temple and left my entire family out. I just found out that this is a POLICY and not a doctrine that the church came up with in 1960. How can they preach family and yet hurt soooooo many families? (That was rhetorical).
This is a tough one but it’s something that may change given some of the changes due to the recent legalization of gay marriage in the U.S.A.
Quote:My son’s Seminary was awful— the teacher let his wife do it sometimes or have the kids do the lesson or just read dryly from the manual when he did do it. I found out he really did not want the calling, but said that “you are not supposed to turn down a calling”. Also, I have a son with some mild special needs and one of them is that he has a hard time waking up because he needs a lot of sleep. I asked the Bishop if we could do home study and I was told we could not because there was a Seminary class available. It’s like we have to fit in the mold.
I’m not expert but you might want to ask around. I don’t know why your son couldn’t do home study rather than attend the class. Isn’t it far better that he be involved on some level rather than not? That’s the question I would ask the bishop.
Quote:And we have to do genealogy, find someone for the missionaries to teach, clean the church, attend the temple, have FHE, participate in service projects, have a calling, read the scriptures every day. I can’t do all of that and I feel like a failure.
You will find on this site a lot of references to BOUNDARIES. You really do have the choice as to which activities you focus on. You got kids right now that need your attention? Put the genealogy on the back burner. Don’t have time to get to the temple? Well do it every other month or every six months rather than once a month. Missing FHE? Well, don’t stress (I skip it all the time). You have to do what you can.
Quote:Why can’t I turn down a calling that I would truly hate? Not every calling, just one I would hate. Why can’t I choose what is best for my family?
It’s already been mentioned but you CAN! You can say “no”. When my father was a bishop, he often complained about how many people turned down callings. It’s done all the time for a variety of reasons (some good and some bad). The message we hear and the reality are two different things. Your fellow ward members ARE turning down callings (I’ll bet). You just don’t hear about it.
Quote:I hate, hate, hate going to church.
Maybe analyze what it is you hate. Is it just the time? Is it the people? The lessons? Combo of all three? If you can’t stand it, go to Sacrament meeting. If you attend Sacrament meeting once a month, you are considered an active member of the Church. A woman in our ward works for LDS Church Distribution. She comes to Sacrament meeting at that is all. She doesn’t hold a calling. She doesn’t visit teach. She doesn’t attend any other meetings. She does the bare minimum so she can keep her temple recommend and still work for the Church. Now, is this okay? (Shrug) Don’t know. But it is what works for her.
Quote:Am I wrong? Did Satan win? Why can’t the church see that they are torturing us? Why should the gospel of Jesus Christ be a burden and not a joy? (Not rhetorical. All opinions welcome.)
You may not feel this way ALL the time. Maybe a few months from now, you won’t feel so strongly about it. I don’t believe that Satan is winning if you are still obeying commandments, being good to others, and trying your best. You don’t need to “run faster than you have strength.” We are taught in the Church that one little slip up is the first step on the road to hell. I suppose it CAN be but I don’t believe that it automatically IS. God knows your heart and if your heart is right with him, everything else will take care of itself.
Hi, BuffetMormon :wave: I’m glad you found us and I hope being here helps you. “Buffet” and “cafeteria” Mormons are criticized, but, as Hawkgrrrl (I think) pointed out, we’re not cafeteria Mormons, we’re (ALL OF US) cafeteria humans. If I go through the line week after week and there’s nothing on my tray that says “LDS,” then maybe I won’t be a Mormon. I don’t see that happening, but I have to get comfortable with my tray not looking like everyone else”s all the time. Or, if it’s served up lunch lady-style, I have to have the nerve to throw away what I don’t want or never asked for in the first place.There a lots of discussions here about the individual and the institution, boundary maintenance and personal journeys. Welcome!
Thank you everyone. I thought I was the only one who felt this way. I made the decision just to attend sacrament (at least for now- maybe will attend other meetings in the future) and Sunday was actually nice for the first time. I looked forward to going to church knowing I did not have to sit there in agony for 3 hours. I listened more in sacrament, didn’t pull out my phone. For the first time, I liked it.
I still don’t know why the church has to torture us. Something I am still struggling with.
I agree with you that church is overly long. Two hours would be a good fit for me. BuffetMormon wrote:I still don’t know why the church has to torture us. Something I am still struggling with.
I don’t believe the church set the three hour block to intentionally torture us.
1) The church has announced another session of General Conference, the Sunday Night session.
2) The church has announced the four hour block.
Of course the underlying joke is “Jeez, aren’t our meetings already oppressively long enough?”
What shocked me was that there were many people that were disappointed that the news was fake. They were excited about a four hour block.
:crazy: To each their own, right? I mean, look no further than that albino dude in Da Vinci Code.A few random thoughts:
I now view the burden as being one of meetings that are not engaging, not one of the amount of time that transpires. I might not mind sitting in 6 hours of meeting if I felt like they were engaging and beneficial. In my opinion it would be a lot harder to make our meetings engaging (what engages one disengages another) than it would be to simply shorten the duration of said meetings.
- As you have decided, if you don’t like the three hour block format you don’t have to attend every meeting. There’s nothing forcing us to stay. Sure there’s the guilt, that we somehow aren’t doing all that we could. There’s also the cultural expectations. To that I’d say:
That’s just another manifestation of the all or nothing approach.
:sick: - Church was made for man, not man for church. Church is supposed to be a resource that we access to help us along in our journey. If we only need an hour of said resource then we only need an hour. Maybe we don’t use church meetings at all and look to other resources. I think god appreciates people that only take what they need.
- As an extension to the previous thought, in some circumstances attending the full three hour block can be counterproductive to our spiritual growth. Too much of a “good” thing.
- I think a lot of what prevents us from attending on our terms is a worry about how other people will view us. E.g. People will view me as lesser if I only attend one hour. Nuts to them.
- If church is three hours we only sate that guilt if we are attending the full block. We have to find a way to let go of the guilt, it only exists in our minds.
I don’t mean to offend with this comment, this one is more reflected back at me than anyone. We each have our own unique spiritual path. If I were to take my own advice of attending only the meetings I wanted to attend rather than the meetings that others expect me to attend I might say that the underlying issue is that I don’t like it when other people try to tell me what my spiritual path should look like. If I try to apply pressure to get the church to change to that two hour block that I dream about then I’m really no different. I’d be trying to institutionalize a path that is unique to me. Solution? Move to that April Fools four hour block, let the fools attend four hours, I’ll attend two.
BuffetMormon wrote:Members can’t think for themselves. …. It’s like we have to fit in the mold. Why can’t I turn down a calling that I would truly hate? Not every calling, just one I would hate. Why can’t I choose what is best for myfamily?
Welcome to the forum.I truly believe that some times the Lord wants us to learn and progress…and perhaps the lesson we need to learn is the true answers to your rhetorical questions.
Perhaps you are NOT supposed to do everything your bishop tells you. Or fit a “mold” or look to leaders to tell you what is right for your family. They will give their opinions if you ask them.
But…maybe it is time you decide for yourself and take the teachings serious when apostles state that no one has the authority to receive revelation for you or your family above you.
Start to peel back the onions of things you NEED to shed that are not really gospel doctrine but are simply good ideas the church has adopted, some becoming traditions of our fathers. Start to separate out what is truth and what is someone else’s opinion. And start taking ownership of your religion and your relationship with God, giving yourself permission to practice according to the dictates of your own conscience.
Pres Uchtdorf has taught us:
Quote:The Savior Himself provided the answer with this profound declaration: “If ye love me, keep my commandments.” This is the essence of what it means to be a true disciple: those who receive Christ Jesus walk with Him.
But this may present a problem for some because there are so many “shoulds” and “should nots” that merely keeping track of them can be a challenge. Sometimes, well-meaning amplifications of divine principles—many coming from uninspired sources—complicate matters further, diluting the purity of divine truth with man-made addenda. One person’s good idea—something that may work for him or her—takes root and becomes an expectation. And gradually, eternal principles can get lost within the labyrinth of “good ideas.”
This was one of the Savior’s criticisms of the religious “experts” of His day, whom He chastised for attending to the hundreds of minor details of the law while neglecting the weightier matters.
So how do we stay aligned with these weightier matters? Is there a constant compass that can help us prioritize our lives, thoughts, and actions?
Once again the Savior revealed the way. When asked to name the greatest commandment, He did not hesitate. “Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind,” He said. “This is the first and great commandment.” Coupled with the second great commandment—to love our neighbor as ourselves —we have a compass that provides direction not only for our lives but also for the Lord’s Church on both sides of the veil.
Pres Uchtdorf, Oct 2009, LOVE OF GOD
Perhaps the Lord wants you on a journey, and thinks you are ready for a journey, that lets you be a buffet mormon, so you can truly learn to embrace the deep doctrines or weightier matters that He cares about, and shed the things that only matter to other people in the church who judge your outward actions.I believe your frustrations (I have felt them too) are ways that the spirit, or the universe, or your inner compass…something is telling you that you are not quite in alignment with the love of the gospel.
The church should be a church of love and peace, not fear and frustration. There are ways to make it work.
Have you read the Essay on our main webpage? There are some ideas to start with as you go on your own personal journey. You can stayLDS and work through things, and in 5 years from now, may realize you needed this journey to learn your religion better. And you don’t need to shed the gospel teachings you love, you just need to shed the traditions and cultural annoyances that have crept in and caused you angst.
nibbler wrote:There’s nothing forcing us to stay. Sure there’s the guilt, that we somehow aren’t doing all that we could. There’s also the cultural expectations.
My 9 yr old daughter swims on the community swim team. Recently an LDS friend asked how we deal with many of the meets being on Sunday. I answered, “We go to the meet.” She seemed a little taken aback, laughed awkwardly and said, “Yeah, well there is that.” I elaborated by explaining that many meets are held in regional cities and span both Saturday and Sunday. We sign up for the Saturday morning events and then drive back home in plenty of time to be in church the next day. There are two exceptions annually. The first is the big local swim meet that our team hosts. This is the time when all the parents are asked to be volunteers in an “all hands on deck” event. DW and I both skip church to help run this event that is important for the continued survival of the team. The second exception is a meet in a small rural town that is geared towards the under 10 crowd. It is a great experience with camping permitted right around the community pool. It is just too far to make a day trip out of it.
I just refuse to be a “church on Sunday at all costs” type of person and I make no apologies for it. Church will ALWAYS be there. There are some really good experiences that might never come around again.
I agree that there should be balance. Hence my signature below “it doesn’t have to be about the church all the time”. Balance is good… 
Just one simple point for now: Even the most orthodox, traditional members don’t believe everything said by every prophet and apostle. It would be impossible to believe everything they have said, since they haven’t agreed with each other on many, many, many occasions.
Thus, all of us are buffet Mormons, including every person in the global leadership. I am comfortable with it in my own life – especially since, ironically, I can say I am following the prophets’ and apostles’ examples in that regard.
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