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As an artist and designer, I’m used to thinking a bit *different* from mainstream LDS culture about how things should be done and why. There were certain things, however, that I just didn’t allow myself to question. You could say that there were certain doors in my house that I knew had unanswerable questions behind them, and I chose to ignore them for the most part and worship in a way that gave my life structure, meaning, and a place in my community. At a certain point, however, I had to open those doors and accept the possibility that if behind those doors I found termites and black mold, that I might have to move out, even if that meant homelessness.
What I found behind those doors wasn’t entirely surprising. There were certain aspects that I had known since my days as a 9th grade seminary student studying the D&C. But, to reexamine them as an adult, with my eyes a little wider and my heart a little more open provided a different view of what had happened, what the faith of my fathers would have been based on, and how much the church differs today—and how ok I am with that. I’m sure that they are all things that have been discussed here. After all, everyone digging a hole in the same place will find the same dirt.
Both my wife and I were raised in the church and come from good ol’ pioneer stock. We have only been married for a year and a half. In fact, one of the reasons I married her and waited so long to get married at all (married at nearly 29) was because I wanted to marry someone with a STRONG testimony of the Church. So, you can imagine the disillusionment, betrayal, and fear she felt when I began telling her that I had concerns about the church (which I didn’t have when we got married). Right now she is about six months pregnant, and I am committed to my wife and son-to-be. This is one of the most heart-wrenching things I have ever been through.
Being a committed, believing member of the church has always been an important source of pride and identity. My grandparents have always been my guiding light in life. I knew that if grandpa approved of something, then I was on the right track. Being a priesthood bearer, and the patriarchal connection to my grandfather was something that I held very dear. When he passed away last year, I felt so lost, but I felt I could count on my faith to get me through anything that was to come. Now, that has all been dashed upon the rocks of a reality that I had previously left untouched.
So—I want to stay in the church because it offers me a place to serve, a sense of community, and meaningful ways to worship my Heavenly Father with my wife. I’m just not sure how that is going to play out.
My wife and I are used to going to the temple every other week. And, I feel like although it may not be entirely inspired, the ordinances there provide good reminders of the type of man I try to be and the importance of a Savior. I want to keep going and to wearing the temple garment for those reasons, but I don’t know if I should (or am even allowed to). And, I want to bless my son when he is born in a few months, but, I don’t know if I will be allowed. These things make me very sad.
I am here to learn from those who have gone before me and support others who are trying to make it work as well.
Also, does anyone have any recommendations on underwear? It’s been far too long since I’ve had to buy “normal” underwear. Ha ha ha! 
Welcome. There is no reason why you can’t do whatever you want to do, including temple attendance and blessing your baby – as long as you keep your doubts to yourself or have an understanding Bishop. Frankly, I would keep it to yourself if you want to continue attending the temple and find goodness there, since there is no need to “know” anything in the recommend questions themselves. Stick with the expected “yes” and “no” answers, by interpreting the questions as broadly and ambiguously as they are asked.
After all, the Church preaches against gambling, and sharing doubts absolutely is a roll of the dice. So, you would be following the counsel of the brethren by keeping your mouth shut about some things.
😆 SomeUsername84 wrote:Also, does anyone have any recommendations on underwear? It’s been far too long since I’ve had to buy “normal” underwear. Ha ha ha!
Welcome 84! My name is Tom and I have been through most of these struggles–discovering the “truth” behind the Truth, dropping out of the Temple, then going back, finally leaving the Temple work to others who still believe in the literalness of the urgency to do the vicarious works. I think you will find here a range of views about the Church but all with one common denominator, that we all want to remain engaged in the life of the Church. We are not angry exmo’s, we are not out to bash the good men who lead the Church (and I am convinced they genuinely believe in the myth stories), and I would think most of us here are respectful of decisions to both stay and leave.
I have said somewhere else on this site that I think people benefit from the collective memory of the past Church that is held in the minds of those of pioneer stock. You guys know things from your grandparents that shed light on the real evolution of the Church. Without you, converts like me would be completely reliant on the Church and its TBM parrots for perspective.
I would encourage you to keep attending the Temple in case it sparks any spiritual epiphanies/manifestations in you. It is a special place virtually devoid of any references to the context of society (except when someone starts offering a prayer for our troops overseas–I always find that jarring) or even time/place references. That is powerful.
SomeUsername84 wrote:. So, you can imagine the disillusionment, betrayal, and fear she felt when I began telling her that I had concerns about the church (which I didn’t have when we got married). Right now she is about six months pregnant, and I am committed to my wife and son-to-be. This is one of the most heart-wrenching things I have ever been through.
…..
My wife and I are used to going to the temple every other week. And, I feel like although it may not be entirely inspired, the ordinances there provide good reminders of the type of man I try to be and the importance of a Savior.
I want to keep going and to wearing the temple garment for those reasons, but I don’t know if I should (or am even allowed to). And, I want to bless my son when he is born in a few months, but, I don’t know if I will be allowed. These things make me very sad.
My heart aches for you because I feel the same “guilt” regarding the “
betrayal, and fear she felt when I began telling her that I had concerns about the church (which I didn’t have when we got married)” and I have been married for 15 years. It does get easier… some days are harder than others. You sound like a very like a good man who has his heart in the right place. I hope you keep coming back here for support. It has honestly saved me some serious heartache. As far as the temple and taking your garments off… my personal opinion is to hold off on that. I am not sure what the official doctrine is, but I am under the impression that you aren’t required to take them off until instructed by your bishop to do so… excommunication or such?? My brother hasn’t gone to church in 10 years, has admitted to two bishops that he is atheist and believes nothing. They still encouraged him to wear his garments. Unless you hate your garments and don’t want to wear them anymore, that is different. When I found out the the history I was so angry for a week that I was grossed out by the garments and didn’t want them to touch me. Then I decided to see them as something different, the love of God… and it was winter and I don’t mind them nearly as much in the winter…haha The summer might be prove to be difficult again.
i agree with Curtis regarding your concerns, try to keep them to yourself at church and open up only with those you know are “safe”. It will seem to go against every “Mormon” feeling in your body, but I am glad I took that advice in the beginning of my FC. I personally don’t go to the temple anymore due to extreme anxiety I felt last time I went (6 months ago). Causes extreme sadness as it used to be a place of refuge and beauty for me, now all I see is misogyny. (It may have been exaggerated that day in my head, but still…..) I have hope to someday be able to find beauty and refuge again.
I do understand your hurt. My husband told me last week that he is sad that we don’t go to the temple anymore. He said that one of the hardest parts of my FC for him. It nearly broke my heart as he opened up and shared his pain and his heartache with me… made me want to go running back to who I was before and wish I had never “opened my eyes”. But, I can’t. I see the rainbow now and I can’t go back to black and white.
SU84, Welcome. I can tell you that I was much much later to this forum than you, and even so, it was a wonderful discovery and has helped me a great deal. It’s encouraging to hear that you are not alone, and it’s helpful to try to help others.
I want you to know that there are many here who mourn with you. It is a difficult thing for so many, and it’s hard to describe it to someone who hasn’t lived it. Actually, there is no point in attempting it, because only those who share your frame of reference can truly understand. That’s one of the things that is so wonderful about this site.
I would like to comment on a couple of things you said.
SomeUsername84 wrote:I am committed to my wife and son-to-be.
One of the trickiest aspects of navigating a situation like yours is relationships. When I had my faith transition (in the 90’s), my wife didn’t know where I would land, and frankly, neither did I. It was an uncertain time. But just like you, I was committed to my family. In essence, that became the iron rod that I could hold onto. You are probably already doing this, but make sure you tell you wife, and often, how committed you remain to her and to the child. She can’t hear this enough. I feel that I learned to love my wife even more than I had before, because she became the only person that truly understood. Make sure your wife knows how much you love her, and it’s good to say that your love for her is increasing, if that is so. Finally, and this was a subtlety that I didn’t pick up on right away, but make sure she understands that you are still a good person who wants to do good and that you are actively working on being the same person you always have been. In doing this, it is helpful to concentrate on what you do believe rather than what you don’t. Also helpful here, is to maintain an appreciation for the good of the Church, and let her know that that is how you feel (if that is so).SomeUsername84 wrote:I knew that if grandpa approved of something, then I was on the right track.
That’s beautiful. It doesn’t have to change. You talked of being on the “right track”. ‘Right’ is a relative term. Your grandfather must have been a great man to have had such a positive influence on you. My guess is that he was on the “right track” to have become such a good person. ‘Right’ doesn’t have to mean “most up on the conflicts in the Church”. Sometimes, it just means ‘good’. When my father was at the end of his life, he said how grateful he was for the Church and the influence for good it had had on his family. Dad was right. I no longer believe that the Church is ‘true’, but I do believe it is ‘right’ for many people.I got married at 30, but that was a very long time ago now and it took me much longer to realize my faith crisis and it took me a long time to find this place. I can relate to much of what you have said. Welcome. I’m curious about why you think you won’t be allowed to go to the temple, wear garments or bless your child. If you did commit some major sin (e.g. murder) you didn’t indicate it, and from your tone I don’t think that’s the case. (I also don’t want you to share your sin if you did, that’s private, I’m just thinking it might be a choice instead of something that’s being forced on you.) As Curtis said, as long as you can appropriately and honestly answer the TR questions there is no reason for you not to go to the temple, and even if you can’t answer all of them appropriately, there is no reason to shed the garments. If you need help answering some of the questions, there are great threads here and you can always ask in the support section. As to blessing the baby (congrats BTW), blessing and naming is not a saving ordinance and one does not have to be temple worthy to do it. And, echoing one more thing Curtis said, be careful what you share and with whom you share it.
Curtis wrote:Welcome.
There is no reason why you can’t do whatever you want to do, including temple attendance and blessing your baby – as long as you keep your doubts to yourself or have an understanding Bishop. Frankly, I would keep it to yourself if you want to continue attending the temple and find goodness there, since there is no need to “know” anything in the recommend questions themselves. Stick with the expected “yes” and “no” answers, by interpreting the questions as broadly and ambiguously as they are asked.
After all, the Church preaches against gambling, and sharing doubts absolutely is a roll of the dice. So, you would be following the counsel of the brethren by keeping your mouth shut about some things.
😆 I couldn’t have said it any better. Being open about doubts makes church life complicated — particularly with your pioneer heritage and all the family expectations that go with it. Learn to find your own way — be in the church, but not OF the church.
Welcome. I don’t want to repeat what others have said but I do want to let you know that you have access to many of the procedural questions you might have. Anyone with Internet access can read the Church Handbook of Instructions Book 2. Here is a quote from the handbook pertaining to the name and a blessing.
Quote:A bishop may allow a father who holds the Melchizedek Priesthood to name and bless his children even if the father is not fully temple worthy. Likewise, a bishop may allow a father who is a priest or Melchizedek Priesthood holder to baptize his children or to ordain his sons to offices in the Aaronic Priesthood. A Melchizedek Priesthood holder in similar circumstances may be allowed to stand in the circle for the confirmation of his children, for the conferral of the Melchizedek Priesthood on his sons, or for the setting apart of his wife or children. However, he may not act as voice.
There is a common misconception that many ordinances require you to have a temple recommend to perform the ordinance. This is not entirely true. The handbook states temple worthy. The catch is how is temple worthiness determined?
SomeUsername84 wrote:Both my wife and I were raised in the church … So, you can imagine the disillusionment, betrayal, and fear she felt when I began telling her that I had concerns about the church … This is one of the most heart-wrenching things I have ever been through.
Right now, whether or not you decide the Church is your cup of Mormon-friendly tea, your primary obligation is to yourself and your spouse. No Bishop can take away what you’re building there. Coming from a few more years of experience, you have not yet had enough time to get used to each other’s quirks, let alone a change of faith. Be open, loving, honest, and all those good things you should be to your wife, whether or not the Church is true for you. Catholics, Buddhists, Muslims and Atheists that have good marriages all have one thing in common – they have good marriages.
As for being on the “right track”, you have now entered the domain where you must make your own decisions, as terrifying as that may seem. And the best part? You have the ability to make those choices.
I wish you luck and awesome spousal communication – it is worth more than your membership in the Church ever was, even if the Church is true.
I’ve said this before, but, whatever the nature of the Garden of Eden story, Adam chose to leave God and a place of perfect peace to stay with his wife in a place of toil and strife. I’m NOT equating that with staying in or leaving the Church; rather, I’m just saying, to Adam, in the narrative in which we act as participants in the temple, Eve was the top priority. There is great power in that paradigm.
I went through something similar to you, and there are many others here as well. You’re definitely not alone in this. SomeUsername84 wrote:My wife and I are used to going to the temple every other week. And, I feel like although it may not be entirely inspired, the ordinances there provide good reminders of the type of man I try to be and the importance of a Savior. I want to keep going and to wearing the temple garment for those reasons, but I don’t know if I should (or am even allowed to). And, I want to bless my son when he is born in a few months, but, I don’t know if I will be allowed. These things make me very sad.
I am here to learn from those who have gone before me and support others who are trying to make it work as well.
When I had my crisis of faith, I felt like continuing to wear my garments was incredibly hypocritical and just wrong when I wasn’t even sure if I believed in God, let alone Joseph Smith and the church. I felt the same way about taking the sacrament. It represented something that I couldn’t say I was truly committed to. It didn’t feel right to represent myself that way to others, but most importantly to my inner self. So I stopped. I wasn’t married yet, and my decisions didn’t affect anyone but me at the time. It would be a bigger step to do that when married to a believing spouse.I heartily wish that I’d had this site around back then. At the time, I didn’t know where to look or what to do. I didn’t dare try to look up anything online because I thought it would all be anti-Mormon, and I didn’t want to consume any of that poison (my concerns were not about history or doctrine anyway). I wish I had heard the advice to go slow. Now I’m on a slow and tortuous path to where I could have easily been back then, if only I’d known about it. Don’t change anything too fast, because it can be incredibly hard to go back.
As others have mentioned, there is nothing wrong with you wearing the garments, assuming you haven’t committed a major sin. It’s not a sin to have doubts or to lack conviction, and I wish I had understood that fifteen years ago.
Whatever you decide, make sure it’s the best thing for your family. Let us know how things are going.
As you can see from the archives there are people here from the humanities
and the sciences, academics and professionals.
I have from time to time worked in the theater backstage. You can’t
afford to be a homophobe in that field. I tend to assume professional
actors are gay unless they say otherwise! (A majority or at least many
are.)
I’m also as capable of discussing Jack Kerouac and Sylvia Plath as the
interrelationship between Nephites and Lamanites; the Diamond Sutra and
Koran as much as D+C… I speak several languages and have visited at
least twenty countries, and my record and film collections are diverse. I
go to arthouse cinemas regularly – you get the picture. I’ve been to
and seen many things the average member hasn’t.
But I also live the Word of Wisdom, read the scriptures, pray and am temple worthy. (My TR’s expired but I aim to get one next month or two)
We’re out there, and we’re not out to destroy the church. There are some
things that can be changed for the better, but that’s happening partly
without our help.
Welcome! This part of you faith journey is the most difficult, but it does get easier. To maybe set your mind at ease, my FC/FT started almost 20 years ago, and I’m still active in church. I’ve done extensive research into church history and I’m not surprised by anything I hear or read anymore. In spite of that, I’m a temple ordinance worker and I recently renewed my temple recommend. While I’m still growing and changing in spiritual ways, and I’m not sure where my journey will ultimately lead, I agree with you that there is much good in the church and in the temple. While I no longer believe the temple ceremonies in a literal way, they do help me in my spiritual journey. I also love going to serve the patrons that come and helping them in their journeys. It makes me happy to see them happy.
This is a little off topic, but Tom said:
Quote:It is a special place virtually devoid of any references to the context of society (except when someone starts offering a prayer for our troops overseas–I always find that jarring) or even time/place references.
I just want to say that Tom might not feel that way if he had loved ones overseas in harm’s way, which I have and do. It’s always to a comfort to me to know that the combined faith of everyone there is going out to him. I’ll take that positive energy wherever I can get it.Thank you everyone for your words of encouragement and advice! For now, the church is a source of good for my wife and me, and as long as it stays that way, I plan to be involved as much as I feel comfortable. To be honest, the things I found when I decided to begin discovering where my faith lies and what the origins of the church are didn’t surprise me. I have always been kind of an “a la carte Mormon,” accepting that not everything that proceedeth forth from the mouth of a man is the will or opinion of the Lord. The only thing that has really changed is my definition of the word “prophet” and my perspectives on the literality of the Book of Mormon. I still believe that there are many good and inspired things in the church. I just don’t believe that all things are/were. If that makes me apostate in some people’s eyes, I’m ok with that. My faith is my own.
As I have gotten over my feelings of disillusionment and confusion, and as my wife and I have continued to talk about the way I feel, things are getting easier every day. I feel like my personal religion is becoming purer again and that is one of the best feelings in the world.
I did have a very uncomfortable meeting with the bishop yesterday, however. My wife felt like she needed someone to talk to and asked if I would be ok with her talking to the bishop. I decided that it was a sacrifice that I was willing to make. I knew it would bring many uncomfortable discussions with him; but, I also knew that she needed someone who might be able to help her with her side of the situation. Let me just vent for a second and say that I DO NOT FEEL LIKE I NEED TO BE “SAVED” FROM THIS. I feel better for it. And it made me really uncomfortable and frustrated to try to explain my concerns while he tried to “reconvert” me. I felt so alone and angry afterward that I just went home and sobbed. It was absolutely awful for me.
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