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Taking a riff off of Daeruin’s reflections, Hawkgrrls – Best Questions post, Heber’s – Believing in Christmas post and recent discussions about what is and isn’t with 3 Nephites, etc. – I bring you Imagination. Yesterday it was announced that J.K. Rowlings Harvard Commencement Address will be published in book form. The title will be
Quote:‘Very Good Lives: The Fringe Benefits of Failure and the Importance of Imagination.’
I am a Rowling fan on many levels. I have a curious and imaginative mind. Like Daeruin I created friends and worlds in my imagination, ironically the baby sister I created in my imagination at three years old, with no inspiration from life experiences, came to real life 13 years in the form of – you guessed it – a baby sister.
Our religion and many religions seem to have an imagination base – visions, visitations, relics, books, etc. Science is inspired by imagination – and the “What If” question. Likewise, Inventor’s, explorers, discoverers (think Madame Currie) were driven by imagination.
My two questions -1. Should religion embrace, acknowledge, expound on imagination? 2. Does imagination make religion possible/plausible? (If you can dream it, you can be it, theory.)
Absolutely, YES – to both questions. mom3 wrote:My two questions -1. Should religion embrace, acknowledge, expound on imagination? 2. Does imagination make religion possible/plausible? (If you can dream it, you can be it, theory.)
A qualified Yes.
I believe Religions are founded on imagination but become less and less imaginative the more structured they become.
I imagine that JS, had he lived, would have continued to inovate in the LDS church (much to the chagrin of many that were having a hard time keeping up with his exhausting pace). I also imagine that if JS were born into the LDS church today, he would face church discipline and probably eventual excommunication.
Some really good thoughts were shared in the following thread:
http://forum.staylds.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=4213&hilit=+lava Quote:Sad as it is, religion left to itself turns irreligious. Once, in Hawaii, after I had been walking on still-hot volcanic rock, another image for this process occurred to me; the image not of water but of fire. The beginnings of the great religions were like the eruptions of a volcano. There was fire, there was heat, there was light: the light of mystical insight freshly spelled out in a new teaching; the best of hearts aglow with commitment to a sharing community; and celebration, as fiery as new wine. The light of doctrine, the glow of ethical commitment, and the fire of ritual celebration were expressions that gushed forth red hot from the depths of mystical consciousness. But, as that stream of lava flowed down the sides of the mountain, it began to cool off. The farther it got from its origins, the less it looked like fire; it turned into rock. Dogmatism, moralism, ritualism: all are layers of ash deposits and volcanic rock that separate us from the fiery magma deep down below.
But there are fissures and clefts in the igneous rock of the old lava flows; there are hot springs, fumaroles, and geysers; there are even occasional earthquakes and minor eruptions. These represent the great men and women who reformed and renewed religious tradition from within. In one way or another, this is our task, too. Every religion has a mystical core. The challenge is to find access to it and to live in its power. In this sense, every generation of believers is challenged anew to make its religion truly religious.….
I wonder if today’s world devalues imagination as a child’s thing, and by doing so, as we adults try to reason ourselves to feel more advanced, if we go through mid-life crises or other crises in search for what imaginations we gave up as kids. Religion, very much, is about imagination, finding peace not of this world, but what we imagine ourselves to be in our existence.
Quote:Happiness is not an ideal of reason, but of imagination
-Immanuel Kant
Quote:Where there is no vision, the people perish
-Proverbs 29:18
Quote:“Tell me one last thing,” said Harry. “Is this real? Or has this been happening inside my head?”
Dumbledore beamed at him, and his voice sounded loud and strong in Harry’s ears even though the bright mist was descending again, obscuring his figure.
“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?”
Old-Timer wrote:Quote:“Tell me one last thing,” said Harry. “Is this real? Or has this been happening inside my head?”
Dumbledore beamed at him, and his voice sounded loud and strong in Harry’s ears even though the bright mist was descending again, obscuring his figure.
“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?”
:thumbup: Hence why I can say it doesn’t matter to me if all of Joseph’s revelations/visitations were visionary in nature. Because he saw them with his “spiritual eyes” makes them no less real.Heber13 wrote:I wonder if today’s world devalues imagination as a child’s thing, and by doing so, as we adults try to reason ourselves to feel more advanced, if we go through mid-life crises or other crises in search for what imaginations we gave up as kids.
This does happen a lot, but I think the geek revolution is changing that to some degree. It’s now cool to wear your heart on your sleeve when it comes to your favorite comic book hero, movie, TV show, book, graphic novel, or what have you. I think we are beginning to embrace fantasy more fully in mainstream society. People like Stephen Colbert have done a lot to legitimize the worship of things like Middle Earth and Star Wars. But even before the geek revolution, many people loved reading fiction and watching movies, all of which is a product of someone’s imagination. And even many of the most dedicated secularists still love themselves some good sci-fi.Despite the high-profile examples of people like JRR Tolkien and CS Lewis, I still see a lot of imagination-hate in religious conservatives. For decades, some Christians have seen Dungeons and Dragons as evil devil-worship. I had a good friend in high school who was not allowed to play those harmless games with the rest of my friends because of that (he also wasn’t allowed to play with face cards).
Interestingly, Mormons tend to embrace imagination and fantasy much more readily than other conservative-leaning religions. A disproportionate number of fantasy and sci-fi authors are Mormon—Orson Scott Card, Stephanie Meyer, Brandon Sanderson, James Dashner, David Farland (Wolverton), Tracy Hickman, Anne Perry (yes, she wrote two fantasy novels), Brandon Mull, Aprilynne Pike, and the list goes on and on. This article talks more about it:
http://mormonartist.net/articles/is-it-something-in-the-water/ I have taught my 11 yr old ad 16 yr old boys Dungeons & Dragons. We are going through the The Fell at Shadowkeep. It’s nice to unplug them from video games and the Internet and let them use their imagination on this fantasy game full of evil and good and Gods and magic power and battles in their head instead of in the TV. They love it.
I played a lot with church friends growing up. There were many people that told my parents it was teaching us bad things. My parents were fine with it.
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This isn’t exactly what you’re asking, but if you accept the traditional / literal LDS interpretation of the creation there seems to be abundant evidence that the Creators had imagination. I’m sure that the Plan of Salvation could be engineered to work on featureless world with few species, but instead we have a beautiful world with millions of species, beautiful geography, and the ability for humans to create art, music, etc. And that’s just the visible world. The microscopic is a very interesting (and strange) place and the cosmos are incredibly beautiful – and we can only see a tiny fraction of the universe. There is definitely a place for imagination.
Yes on both counts for the individual members, no on both counts for the leadership. For members, imagination is what leads to innovative programs, engaged volunteers, and progress. It provides the members with opportunities to explore their talents, grow as leaders and individuals, and make unique contributions.
But imagination also requires flexible policy, empowerment of the membership, a high tolerance for failure, and often, deviation from policy. Leaders are generally not very good with this, as it threatens their own position, and they are often accountable for the results — or even letting the members have enough latitude to make the mistake in the first place.
I think imagination is critical in the genesis phase of a religion. But after the religion institutionalizes, doctrine is established, it becomes an “enemy of the state” — that is why you have correlation.
SilentDawning wrote:But imagination also requires flexible policy, empowerment of the membership, a high tolerance for failure, and often, deviation from policy. Leaders are generally not very good with this, as it threatens their own position, and they are often accountable for the results — or even letting the members have enough latitude to make the mistake in the first place.
I’ve sensed over time, that this accurately reflects your experience in your neck of the woods with the leadership you’re dealing with.
I wouldn’t say that sweeping judgement of all leaders in the church is accurate. While I do think there is a passive aggressive tendency in our authoritarian focused church, I have had many wonderfully flexible and empowering leaders with patience and tolerance for failure, and even those that have taught me much about the spirit of the law being more important than the letter. Many know from their work experience what leadership really is.
I can’t argue with your local experience, SD. I just wouldn’t suggest it describes all leaders I’ve dealt with.
My favorite ones are the ones that provide a vision, and with counsels use a lot of imagination, and then get out of the way and let the different auxiliaries and leaders carry it out with latitude to be flexible, understanding it might get done different than they imagined.
I do think the term going around the blogernacle of “leadership roulette” is somewhat of a realistic analogy. I have had some WOMDERFUL leaders that are some of the most loving people I know. I have had some smart as can be leaders that were also very wise and I have to say I learned many things from them. I have also had some hard-#$$ leaders that felt it was their duty to separate the wheat from the tares and would intentionally push peoples buttons just to then say, “Stay in line!”
I recall hearing a podcast and this sister said her dad was a GA and was called to an area that was up in arms because somehow a lady that was an “exotic dancer” was baptized and had not changed her occupation. Some members AND leaders were feeling that this had to be put to an end as this was unacceptable. The GA thought about it for a while and came back and said, “Here is what I want you do to – NOTHING!” Some were a bit ticked with this, but on her own she came to the conclusion that she needed to switch occupations and she did. It would seem to me if they would have kicked her out, some self-righteous members would have felt smug, but the new convert would have probably never come back into the fold and would probably be forever talking about how judgmental the Mormons are.
I am all for big-tent Mormonism. Really big tent.
Heber13 wrote:I have had many wonderfully flexible and empowering leaders with patience and tolerance for failure, and even those that have taught me much about the spirit of the law being more important than the letter. Many know from their work experience what leadership really is.
I’m glad you have had those experiences Heber. I really am. I suppose I find it hard to deny my life’s experiences.
Quote:My favorite ones are the ones that provide a vision, and with counsels use a lot of imagination, and then get out of the way and let the different auxiliaries and leaders carry it out with latitude to be flexible, understanding it might get done different than they imagined.
Amen to that one!
Quote:I suppose I find it hard to deny my life’s experiences.
Don’t deny them – and don’t even try to deny them. Just work on acknowledging that they aren’t universal – and probably aren’t as dominant as they seem. They exist for more than just you, and it sucks that they do – but most people haven’t experienced the totality of what you have experienced.
Let’s hope not. I find it hard to believe they haven’t but I’ll take your word for it.
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