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I have tried to write something on this site for a few days. I even typed a long story/history of painful and joyful experiences in the church and life, but I couldn’t post it. I don’t know why but I just can’t express the reality of most of my personal experiences. I find it very personal and intrusive for me to look at my own past. I really don’t like what I see because it draws me away from the church. So I avoid it as much as humanly possible, trying to focus on the good; believe me it’s hard. I’ve decided to summarize without too many specifics:
I have been treated abusive parents&family(mentally)/loving parents(truly), horrible judgemental members/amazing members (sometimes the same person), loving leaders/abusive leaders and the list goes on. When I speak of judgement and abuse 99.9% are verbal related and gossip.
Challenges:
I am by nature an artist with reasonable noteriaty in my previous work. I left my field because I came to the point that my art, what I wanted to create, required my temple recommend. I chose my temple recommend, as I am married in the temple with children, but have found that I am not the person inside that I live outside. In other words, the person I love is not capable of being mormon. I had a major family health challenge that required family and church financial help. Now I feel financially in debt to support the church for their giving us support. And believe me when I say I was helped “alot.” (more then anyone else I know in the church.)
I actually love Joseph Smith’s humanized side. The story that most mormons don’t even know, but the truth. Some find it offensive, I find it relatable and humanistic. I have a strong testimony of the possibility of Joseph Smith being visited by God. One that I can’t seem to let go. Yet I disagree on many things the current version of our church teaches, as if we are in a small box and are all the same person. I have experienced many member friends that first get to know me and love me. They think I’m just like them, the conservative mormon. But often they eventually find that I share different points of view. (I do this privately and have never been confronted by leaders.) But in the end my mormon friends tend to avoid me, and I tend to have a lot of non member friends; with only hurt from those of my faith.
Temple Goer:
I don’t smoke, drink (not a drop), sex outside my marriage, and swear much at all. My mom punished (mentally not physically) me way too much if I did. I don’t blame my parents. I’m a fifth generation mormon, with major pioneer links in the families past. I feel like I will never be happy as a mormon. I also feel like I’ll never be happy as a non-mormon. I wish I could split myself into two people. The true artist that I am, and the faithful mormon that I’ve always tried to be. This has lead me to a place where I have accepted my life will always be different then what I want it to be because I want opposites. I want complete “GRACE” and the restored gospel on the earth.
My decision:
I have chosen the path of the temple goer. But my heart (even in the temple) cries for unfound joy (beside my kids and wife). I read my scriptures often, I pay my tithing and fast offerings. I’ve experienced wonderful glimps of truth and even a few life changing prophetic moments through my priesthood. Yet I wonder if the priesthood is really just my belief of the power of God. I am too scared to find out by leaving the church if the priesthood really just “power of God to all that believe in Christ” is available to me without the church. I’ve been known to have an amazing gift of giving fairly accurate blessings with very spiritual power and authority. I can’t deny the existence of god, my life experience knows better.
Change of event:
I have been asked by the Bishop to be the “Sunday school president.” I’m also teaching gospel doctrine every other week. I accepted the calling, as that’s what I have been taught to do. I have been fortunate to not have a calling for a couple of years, and wish I could go into inactivity and fade away. But due to a family members health condition I am staying, as we have needed the help in the past and I feel I have a debt to pay. Plus “where else would I go?”
I have been inactive before and found life was easier but not complete. During inactivity I have never been able to break major temple commandments (other then not going to church- I know that’s a big one for some) as the guilt causes me to be ashamed and depressed. But my heart is lost in the person I wish I could be, if only I was born in another church and didn’t believe in the “priesthood” and the prophet “Joseph Smith.” I am just too complicated for myself to understand.
I should mention my wife is aware of my feelings and has her own struggles as well, but we fear any change in our current status. We don’t want to be damned by our family or God. It really is complicated… That being said I usually just try not to think of these things, but the last week has been extra difficult. I feel like I’m part of “the corporation generation” of mormonism.
Welcome “Godlives!” We are a diverse group of people here, so I’m sure the responses to you will also be quite varied, but most will at least make you think — and that’s good! Mine will be short (for now, got a bit of work to do)…but a few things I wanted to say up front is that I HATE GUILT! I don’t think it is a positive, motivating (from a position of good and love) emotion at all. It keeps one trapped and behaving in a way that is from lack, not abundance; from fear, not from love. So even though it triggers behavior (or lack of) that may be seen as “good,” it’s not the right attitude, IMHO.
So one bit of advice I might have for you is to find a degree of unconditional self-love and self-forgiveness that will allow you to approach each of your issues and concerns with a positive attitude. I like to say “it’s all okay;” even the challenges we have are helpful for us to confront and move past. What works for one person may not work for another…and it’s helpful to learn to say no to things that don’t resonate with your spirit.
Enough for now…Good luck and welcome!
Oh I am so sorry Godlives, It is truely a nightmare, I feel so much empathy for you.
A few thoughts,
Quote:I am by nature an artist with reasonable noteriaty in my previous work. I left my field because I came to the point that my art, what I wanted to create, required my temple recommend.
Can you expand upon this? what sort of Art takes away ones temple recomend? My husband is an artist and at one point did the most beautiful collection of nude sculptures. His work had no impact on his temple reccomend. ( we do live in Europe I know utahans `(if thats where you live) are a bit more annal about that sort of thing). I think its very sad that you feel that you have to sacrifice your career for the church.Quote:In other words, the person I love is not capable of being mormon.
What sort of things about being Mormon do you feel incapable of? Are your issues doctrinal or are you feeling ostracised because of Mormon culture and crazy Dogma? I have been encouraged by a lot of people on this site breaking the bonds of ‘expectation” and being free to live the gospel according to the dictates of their own heart. It is possible, people struggle with you at first but then I think they accept the new you. Thats my experience. I think there is something so exhilarating about truly not caring about what they think. The very indoctrinated ones that are making you feel inadequate are actually so brainwashed that its sad.
Quote:I had a major family health challenge that required family and church financial help. Now I feel financially in debt to support the church for their giving us support. And believe me when I say I was helped “alot.” (more then anyone else I know in the church.)
This is not good that you feel you owe the church something. You don’t owe the church anything! I am absolutely delighted that my tithing or fast offering would help someone like you who was in need. I am totally confident that many many people would be far happier that it went on this than…… well don’t get me started on this!
I want complete “GRACE” and the restored gospel on the earth.
[/quote]
Why cant you have this? Have you read Steven R Robinson’s Book, Believing Christ? I really loved it, it helped me to understand complete grace in a mormon perspective. It sounds as though you are struggling with the shoe fits syndrome ( only one size in mormonism if it aint your your size scr–ed) It doesn’t sound as though there is anything major that that the church would class as ‘sinning’ that you are struggling with?
I feel like I’m part of “the corporation generation” of mormonism.[/quote]
Its only you that can make the desicion to be one of the non conformists. I think its easier to stay under your own terms than leave all together.
My thoughts are with you, This forum has helped me, I hope it helps you see that people are struggling with similar things, and some have found a way oh happiness without throwing the baby out with the bath water.
One last thing, The ability to create art is a god given blessing, Your talent should be revered. I can’t see a better vocation for someone that has a Lds perspective of our roles in eternity. Good luck
Welcome, godlives! Well, not to sound too corny but I could have written your intro post word for word about 2 years ago. Except I chose my artistic career and decided to not care what the church/culture/members thought about it.
I’m the resident “discover your codependency” salesman, so… Having been exactly where you are in my past, I found that all of those feelings of contradiction, guilt, anxiety, indebtedness, etc. came from the same place. Codependency.
Codependency becomes stronger the more emotionally abused you were/are. I was emotionally abused in extreme ways as a child by my parents, and as an adult have found myself needing to gain love and acceptance by external sources. I need to be thanked for my work, I need to be noticed for my diligence, I need to feel wanted and important so I strive for perfection in hopes of moments of glory.
I have overcome this though it is a daily struggle. Read the threads on here where we’ve talked in detail about codependency and if you want to change your life, try the book “Codependent No More” by Melody Beattie.
And keep talking, posting, thinking, that is the way through your current feelings. Love the good that is in you. You know you’re a good person, so don’t worry about what others think, including God. He knows what you know so trust Him in the same way He trusts you.
Hi Godlives, “Cognitive Dissonance” is what my therapist would call it. I think alot of us feel these conflicted type of thoughts and feelings. It IS painful to be in that place. My husband left the church about 2 years ago. He is either an all the way or nothing kind of guy. He struggled most of his life in the church ( 35 years ) with his testimony. He actually likes the church and the people and many of its teachings, he just never got the spiritual witness promised in the BoM. He seems much happier and easier to live with actually since leaving the church. Me, on the other, find it much more difficult. My husband was not raised in the church and I was. It seems to make a difference. We too had alot of help financially and other ways from the church during some hard times. I really do feel the anquish you are going through and eventually you will have to come to terms with it, as ‘cognitive dissonance’ will ultimately tear you apart and cause you to feel like you are going insane (is what my therapist told me. I also feel like I have one foot in the door and one foot out. This group has helped me alot to be able to sort things out where I am not so unhappy in the church anymore, yet I do not feel like I fit in with others either. Maybe its ok not to fit in though. I don’t think Jesus fit in that well with everybody either.
Thank you all for your replies. For some reason I feel a little more comfortable responding and expanding (a little) due to the responses I have received so far. I find it INCREDIBLE that there are others that actually can agree with me, or at least understand. The past week was quite a challenge for me. I came to a point of almost complete personal collapse and destruction. I’m currently working towards a new occupation. I’m doing this because my church leaders who gave me funds actually paid off debts in order for me to to this. So when I say I’m in debt to the church “expectation”, I mean it. They gave me financial support with “real” expectations. (Yes, this was fast offering funds) The leaders do not know my true feelings as I think it would SHOCK them. The frustrating part is that I turned down a job that requires me to sift through “pornography” for a film documentary in order to stay in good standing with the church and family. This, after major health challenges lead to the loss of our home and sense of belonging and stability. Ironically if I would have taken the job I probably would not have ever needed the money from the church, though who really knows. I was trying to do what the church told me to do.
When we lost so much in our lives we decided to reinvent ourselves. This lead to something new and wonderful. A chance for a move to a new place. I immediately contacted the church members and missionaries in the new area to help us relocate. Talk about “Codependence.” I now live above the house of the relief society president and high council member. After my spouse’s health crisis I became completely reliant on the “church.” I asked family for help but it wasn’t received well by most. I was told by my older brother to get back my “Dignity” as I obviously had lost it by asking him for money, which he completely refused. I felt so small that day. For the last two years I have counseled with my bishops “only” following their advise. I literally have not made any major decisions (including career choices) with out the approval of the bishops. I moved to a new home for a chance at a new career in which I continued to follow the direction of the new bishop. My entire life was collapsing and I felt incapable of making my own decisions. Any time I bring up a desire to change my direction I speak with my bishop.
I feel like I’m a child again and have lost a sense of adulthood and self reliance. Though now it’s not financial reliance (as I have money to function now) just dependency on life choices. I have found that bishops love it when you say to them “I’ll do anything you want even if I disagree.” Seriously they love it. This has been my motto. “I’ll do anything the church tells me even if I disagree.” I actually used this as justification to vote “YES” on prop 8 which internally I regret. I talk with my parents a lot, which has become more unhealthy then healthy. I talked to my parents about a possibility of a different route then my current one. My mom said last week, “But after all the church has done for you and others have done for you? You need to do what you’ve been told to do by the church and your bishop. How could you betray them?”
(The help was her referring to her and my dad for giving a little money to help me with my move in exchange for my car. Yes I sold them my car for money, but they considered it a favor to me that they bought it. Which it was. I needed the money and didn’t have time to sell it before moving. I actually sold it to them under low blue book value.). It is so painful to hear these words. The funny thing is my family has always looked at me as the rebel who would eventually leave the church. Which I did for a short period out of high school but I felt abandoned and alone and went back to church. I went on a mission soon after. I’ve always wanted to please my family and God.
Recently I have tried to change myself so much that my wife started to not recognize me. She told me that she misses the old more “liberal” viewed me. Apparently I’ve become the “conservative” mormon that wants her to follow the proclamation to the family. In other words “I’m man and you’re women, you watch the kids.” We have started to grow apart and have found that we argue much more. Even the “D” word has come up. We’ve been married for over 10 years and very rarely have brought this up.
My wife recently had to go out of town for over a week. During this time I started to feel very rebellious. I actually thought of cheating on my wife. This is strange since I want to be the perfect husband and priesthood holder. Believe me when I say the IDEA SHOCKS me. If a women would have knocked on my door I believe I would have cheated. I needed an out from my current life and that seemed like an option. Why not just sabotage everything in my life, then I don’t have to be mormon. Who knows maybe I’ll find “new love” and my wife can marry someone who is better for her. Someone who will keep her in the church, as she has issues as well. Fortunately I love my wife and recognized this behavior as deeper then the surface of wanting SEX. I just couldn’t pin point it other then LIFE is hard and my current life sucks. (I don’t feel my life completely sucks now, just a lot. Just expressing myself. Remember I’m an artist. I love my wife and kids, and find happiness with them.)
This all happened within the last week and a half. I also had been asked last week to be Sunday school president when my wife was heading out of town. I became excited about my family history and started to study away. It was here that my eyes opened to the church I had been denying existed. All the walls around me started to collapse and I felt as if the church was my ABUSER. I became angry and a sickness hit me. I actually physically wanted to THROW UP. Then I realized that I gave up my love of ART and changed everything I knew I was, making me even ANGRIER. All the money the church gave me I WISH I NEVER TOOK. I saw the HYPOCRACY that my angry non-members and inactive family/friend members felt about the church. My first reaction was that I wanted to LEAVE the church immediately. Some how I found my way to this website. This kept me from doing something I would regret. Thank you for that.
The biggest trigger for me happened a few nights ago when I went out with my neighbors who are WONDERFUL SOLID mormons. (my wife was out of town) I actually brought up a couple of major issues in church history to them. To my amazement the husband responded with “You aren’t mormon because you believe in the church. You are mormon because you were born in it.” He hasn’t talked with me since. This is strange as we are neighbors and they usually love to talk with me. I was frustrated and went home saying to his wife “your husband thinks I’m a terrible person.” Later that night I received a PRIVATE email of apology from his wife saying “I know my husband was very rude to you. That is his fault. And I know you are not the man like he said.” I should add that he walked away from me at the store while his wife kept walking with me asking questions. I even told her to go find her husband but she didn’t seem to want to leave me. He was with some of the kids. We both had kids there and tend to interact like a family. It is not uncommon for one of us to leave the other with the others spouse. (though now this must change)
she also wrote:
“First: he doesn’t like to see you spent much time talking with his wife. Jealous, you know. Actually, he was very curious about what you had talked about the church history, he asked me about what we talked about in the church history after we got home immediately. And I said to him “but I thought you aren’t interested in that.” He said: I am, I just don’t like you talking with him.” Then she went on explaining all the things he doesn’t like about me, but she wants me to forgive him. I have forgiven him (though he didn’t do anything wrong other then judging me- which is very normal in the church.) but I realized there is potentially a more dangerous reality here. I think this women might actually “like” me.
Earlier that week I had joked with her about finding a girlfriend since my wife was out of town; which she laughed about. The email I received also explained that he was jealous of me talking to his wife. A MAJOR reality check came over me and I realized that he had every right to be angry at me as I did enjoy talking to his wife. She and I connected during a time that my wife and I have been falling apart. I also realized that he was right about his comment regarding me as a member. I was a MEMBER because of my heritage, codependences etc. I called my wife and told her everything. She was surprised but willing to talk. I told her about the history of the church and how all my feelings, doubts, fears, and suspicions were actually true. I told my wife that “my neighbor was right” I did feel like that. For the first time in ten years of struggle I have realized that I am exactly what he said I was, “a culture, codependent moron.” Boy it felt good to admit that to myself.
Later that night I had an amazing glimpse of joy, the idea that Joseph Smith was a SINNER made me feel good. The guilt of my actions became a reflection of the hypocrisy of the leaders of the church. For that few moments I felt at peace with a sense of joy. But it hasn’t lasted. AND I need to teach gospel doctrine on Sunday.
BTW, I have decided not to respond to the email from my neighbors wife, as I think it will lead me NO where good. My wife pointed out that they may be having relationship problems that I’m unaware of.
When my wife returned home she actually expressed her disconnection to some of the church doctrine. She then told me that she didn’t want to be a member but didn’t dare leave. I have told her that it is up to her, and I support her in her decision. She currently plans on staying in the church. She then expressed to me how much she “loved” the artist liberal side of me. When I’m in my art I am at complete comfort with myself. I just can’t financially afford to do it now. I’ve also signed a contract that requires me to complete my studies here. I’m actually okay with being here and hope it’s a place for me to reflect and discover. But leaving the church would be a complete disaster as of the small closeness of the ward and the amount of help they gave us on arrival here. The church is small and much more fragile here. I am also not ready to leave. I’ve decided to turn this into a time of internal exploration. I’m hoping to re find myself.
Now to answer a few questions:
“Can you expand upon this? what sort of Art takes away ones temple recomend? My husband is an artist and at one point did the most beautiful collection of nude sculptures. His work had no impact on his temple reccomend. ( we do live in Europe I know utahans `(if thats where you live) are a bit more annal about that sort of thing). I think its very sad that you feel that you have to sacrifice your career for the church.”
I’m a filmmaker. I want to express real views that can’t be done as a participating member. I don’t want to express the views because I share them, but in order to explore my spirituality and understand the worlds humanistic side. Oh how I wish I had the courage to do this. I think I would be soooo much more happy. But as I haven’t been able to provide for my wife and children, I am pursing the direction I’ve been instructed to from the church. Again I’ve been helped with an expectation that I will fix our finances and be self reliant. Though I’ve never tried to approach my career outside the mormon structure, so I don’t know how cash flow would go with a different outlook. Part of being a crew/filmmaker is sharing in the beers at the end of the day. If you don’t drink with them you may not be trusted and thus left out of future projects.
I’m also concerned about the moral aspects of this journey.
“What sort of things about being Mormon do you feel incapable of? Are your issues doctrinal or are you feeling ostracised because of Mormon culture and crazy Dogma? I have been encouraged by a lot of people on this site breaking the bonds of ‘expectation” and being free to live the gospel according to the dictates of their own heart. It is possible, people struggle with you at first but then I think they accept the new you. That’s my experience. I think there is something so exhilarating about truly not caring about what they think. The very indoctrinated ones that are making you feel inadequate are actually so brainwashed that its sad.”
All the above. My family is brainwashed, me too. I want to have a beer with my friends; just feel normal. I want to “not feel guilty” while doing it. I want to explore my Filmmaking and still know that God loves me and I won’t lose my salvation. I want to be the absolute follower of truth. I don’t want to be a hypocrite. I want us as mormons to accept our errors in life as not “BAD” but as growth. I want to be Jewish, Buddist, or a flavor of Christianity and at the same time embrace Joseph Smiths vision of the Book of Mormon. I want acceptance to myself and from others without GUILT of SIN. At the same time I don’t want to do any of this, and want to stay the most faithful mormon I know. The guy that everyone looks up to and does not feel judged by. Yes I’m pretty broken up right now. My walls have fallen and I don’t dare move a muscle. My world appears to have experienced world war II. All the buildings have fallen around me and the dust and debris is blocking my view. For now I’ll stay the unhappy temple holding “mormon.” But at least I can serve those around me.
I’m planning on taking my eyes off of myself and continuing to serve others. But my views and knowledge of the church will never be the same. I just hope I can find peace in doing this. I have experienced the death of myself as an “ARTIST” buried deep into the ground to never truly experience it’s once almost known life.
I hope my honesty hasn’t made me look too pathetic to those reading this. Sorry for the long post.
I guess I responded more then a “little.” Wow, how did that happen? Thanks again for you understanding. Two days ago I couldn’t post “one” word. Godlives you never need to apologize for a long post, it is clear that you need to share with someone or someones who aren’t judgmental and you have found a good place to do that. Like all who have repsonded to you I feel so sad and so much pain for you. I don’t know how to work it out BUT you have to work your way back into filmmaking somehow. I am a farmer and was a teacher (retired now) and a watercolor artist. My life got too busy so that I wasn’t really able to paint (it takes me about an hour of messing about with paint before I can really start to do something good and finding that time seemed impossible). Over a few years the pressure just built and built to the point where I went on a 1/2 time job position just to find some time to actually live and do some art. That creative part of you IS NOT going to go away, it is the core of much of your being. I do agree that if your current filmmaking involves working around / working with / using as an example / pornography then you do have a real problem. I guess my hope for you would be that you could redirect that creative impulse enough to focus on the emotional/spiritual lives of people in ways that doesn’t require a pornographic physical representation. However you work it out you need to get back to some form of at least “hobby” filmmaking which should be possible for you within a limited budget. A reasonable video camera, some fairly cheap software, a computer and you are able to do at least some “draft” kind of projects. This just came to me and might be entirely silly so please ignore if you want but one solution might be to take those creative impulses into a metaphorical realm, more focused on say animal stories that still get across the ideas?????
Anyway, lots of things to talk about with you but it time to do the chores.
I want to say, hopefully without sounding preachy, that in spite of the significant challenges to my faith and testimony, that I fully believe there is a practical side to each of the commandments. In other words, in spite of my lack of faith, I am not wanting to change my pattern for living, because I see the practical benefits in this life from doing so. So, even if you can’t see the spiritual rewards for the commandments (which I haven’t at times), and can’t see far enough ahead to worry about impacts to salvation, that there are plenty of reasons for living them here and now. So, I’d just add to the counsel to ‘go slow’ and don’t change your values. The church’s values are great values and the world would be a better place if everyone lived the commandments.
I debated whether to post this or not because I’ve never mentioned it on this site but… once again, I could have written your entire second post. I’m a filmmaker too. 😳 Crazy, huh? However, I did make the fateful decision to follow my dreams, no matter where they take me. I’ve since made two very R-rated films (language) and I found a way to recover from codependency.I actually don’t see your life as a shambles without hope. I think the shambles and breaking apart is exactly what was needed. Life is trying to tell you to change. Find yourself. Don’t stop looking inward because you think it’s ugly there. It’s not ugly. You’ve just been told that it must be ugly because of the way you feel and think. Sacrificing yourself more for the sake of others, though it sounds noble, is actually the worst thing you could do. You’ll resent every person you “help” because they’re holding you back from your dreams (this is what will happen in your mind).
You’ve strapped yourself to some gnarly codependencies. No worries. All the more joy and relief when you begin to recover and start to enjoy emotional health. Loving your inside, embracing the good in your heart.
Anyways, I don’t know if you looked at some of the other threads on codependency, but check it out. You’re in the first important step of recognizing it. Now, just follow through. There is an amazingly beautiful life of love, joy, happiness and fulfillment waiting for you.
I know, I just went through it!!
Bill Atkinson wrote:I do agree that if your current filmmaking involves working around / working with / using as an example / pornography then you do have a real problem. I guess my hope for you would be that you could redirect that creative impulse enough to focus on the emotional/spiritual lives of people in ways that doesn’t require a pornographic physical representation.
Thank you for this comment. I think that filmmaking is not perceived as “art” but more as a agenda in the church by “members.” We are taught, at least I was, that if a movie is dark in tone it must be a work of evil. Our church tends to make movies that are designed to preach the gospel. Most “artistic” filmmakers are on an exploration of truths, trials, emotions, and yes some “addiction.” What I find very interesting is that most Mormons would agree that painting or sculpturing a nude person is “art.” For instance most Mormons I know would agree that Michael Angelo was an amazing artist. They are not offended by the “statue of David.” Many forget that most nude paintings use a live nude person to paint from. I took an art history class at a Mormon Church college. We actually studied Michael Angelo and other marvelous artists. We enjoyed the experience and viewed their work as “art.” Most members don’t have a problem with this. But when you tell a story of loss and pain, you need to show the loss and pain. How do you show the reality of the struggle in a film without SHOWING it. Show the struggle and then show the redemption. The scriptures are full of stories that in the end don’t go well. The destruction of the people in the Book of Mormon is a good example. The sex, murders, etc. in the Bible. Most of the time the scriptures aren’t even positive but very negative in nature. Yet we learn from these imperfect humanistic experiences. We learn from SIN. Imagine if I made Joseph Smith accurately. Not the Work and the Glory version, but the one that would truly show us who he was and where we’ve come from as a religion. For me this would be an amazing story to see, but for most in the church it would challenge the very core of their Testimony. But I believe it would scream with “truth” and “power.”
Unfortunately our Church will excommunicate the Filmmaker for showing sex, profanity, and humanistic content. If I were to make a movie about anyone reading this, would your life be “G” rated or “R” rated? How do I show others the wonderful triumph over evil that you go through without showing the pain? I can draw a picture, write a book, but if I show it on the screen I’m in trouble. If I were to make a true “depiction” of the Book of Mormon stories I could be kicked out of the church. But that doesn’t make the scriptures bad.
It just seems so confusing to me. My favorite films, “Braveheart, The Green Mile, Shawshank Redemption, The Passion of the Christ, American Beauty (I know controversial to most in the Church), China Town, Philadelphia, The Natural, Field of Dreams, The Rookie (G – yea!)” are all wonderful movies to me. Yes it’s true that I can make some of them, but many of them would get me Excommunicated.
Could you imagine what would happen to me if I made a movie about a “Gay” mormon? I could show the struggles from all points of views. The love a gay man has for his family, the anguish he fills for his life, the judgement the others place on him, the STRUGGLE to keep the commandments. I would be TOAST if I made this as a filmmaker.
I remember hearing a story of a temple recommend holder that needed a job. He had been a crew member for some of these films. A job was available at the Church Audio/Visual Department, and he was very qualified. But they wouldn’t even consider him because of his previous works; even with a temple recommend.
One more point: If I were to work on a film as a cinematographer for let’s say “Braveheart.” Let’s say I filmed the sex scene in this movie. This is one small part of many other scenes in the movie. If I were to tell the bishop I could get “excommunicated.” But if I was making a sculpture of a nude body, would I be treated the same? Please explain the difference to me. Also, does a member get “excommunicated” for watching Braveheart? But the filmmaker could. Just my feelings. I’m certainly not trying to create controversy. I just can’t overcome this with out understanding “why?”
swimordie wrote:I debated whether to post this or not because I’ve never mentioned it on this site but… once again, I could have written your entire second post. I’m a filmmaker too.
😳 Crazy, huh? However, I did make the fateful decision to follow my dreams, no matter where they take me. I’ve since made two very R-rated films (language) and I found a way to recover from codependency.I feel such a kin spirit in you. My eyes watered reading what you wrote. I hope that you are happy and feel fulfilled in your life. I agree that God loves you for who you are. I just have a hard time believing the same for myself. I just want to do what’s right for me.
A year and a half ago I started filming a movie. There was a scene that required “nudity.” There was no way past it. The day came to film the scene. I couldn’t do it. I wanted to but I couldn’t do it. I shut the production down that day and never completed the film. I blamed the failure on the fact that God didn’t want me to rebel. The film was lost and the footage scrapped. I deleted everything. I have nothing left to show on that movie. Thousands of dollars were lost. My heart was broken… My life after this movie span out of control and everything I worked for, all the equipment, cameras, etc. I had were sold for pennies on the dollar to pay the bills. I dropped out of film school as I felt I couldn’t do this and be a member. My heart has mourned ever since.
I also shot a movie a few years ago that turned out terrible. It was the most pathetic work I’ve ever made. It was amateuristic and shamed my artistic ability. I made a film I didn’t like or relate to. I told myself that it’s okay because it didn’t offend God. I found myself in mediocrity, not because I wasn’t capable of better, but because I shot the worst script I ever wrote because I couldn’t bring myself to shoot the script that challenged my Mormonism, and this was the only other script available.
Now I hide under a rock, avoiding to promote or share the film I shot, as I myself didn’t like what I see and am embarrassed. My filmmaking talents have been buried into the sand ever since. I’ve changed, I’ve lost my dream, but hey there are worst things that can happen, right?
Hi Godlives. Meh….don’t worry about the long posts. Sometimes we just gotta get it all out.
I see some codependent yuckies in your thinking and decisions too. But maybe I can comfort you by telling you that I am a recovering codependent along with Swim. I am not a film maker…… so I can’t help you there. But I am a creative type and have spent parts of my life doing the acting thing and I loved it. I often miss it and wish I had made different decisions in my life as I have cut off associations because I was worried about being righteous too. I look back and I SO underestimated God. And I certainly didn’t trust myself to make good choices. Truth is I was afraid and I let my fears get the best of me instead of letting God guide me thru my creative endeavers. Oh well. Water under the bridge. My life is what it is. But I made sacrifices I didn’t need to make because no one taught me how to think in colors other than black and white!
Put my vote in on recommending Melody Beattie to you. Her “Language of Letting Go” books have literally saved me. ANd I find that most of her ideas are in perfect harmony with the gospel, not to mention being so very gentle and kind and liberating at the same time. That is something I didn’t do very well with myself. I am now learning that I didn’t have to supress my creativity. I am finding such liberation in not getting tied up in perfectionism and applause and needing others and their flimsy affirmations and approvals. Or beating myself with a stick because I don’t match some contrived definition of righteousness. I am learning now about really loving myself and I am exploring the possibilities of what it might look like to be myself in the world completely. No more pretending or hiding or role playing. I am sick of denying who I really am in order to prove that I am good. I am good! I never needed to prove anything. And I didn’t ever need to put away my talents in order to prove my devotion to God. Yuck. It stings a little to examine my life choices. But even that I am learning to accept and forgive. I did the best I could. Sometimes I made mistakes and that wasn’t like me. I can do better now. Why not do better now? I don’t have to live in all those prisons. They didn’t make me safe like I thought they would. I like living in faith and trust and love better and I think that is what Father was trying to teach me all along.
I hope you give yourself permission to stop living under that rock! Throw the dang rock off a cliff! And add any other thought process that isn’t self loving. Good luck with your creative pursuits. I don’t know all the answers with regards to how you control the content of certain subjects. What I do know is that God is more creative that all of us. Oh my stars….have you seen that “PLanet Earth” series? If He can create all that, and all of us cool people too, then He can certainly help you with your film making.
Living the gospel is about joy! Its about all kinds of love! And its about opening the possibilities thru Christ and personal responsibility! Thinking and acting ourselves into knots and confines isn’t the gospel. Free yourself and start enjoying your life and your worship! Living in this kind of freedom is a really really yummy thing!
Quote:One more point: If I were to work on a film as a cinematographer for let’s say “Braveheart.” Let’s say I filmed the sex scene in this movie. This is one small part of many other scenes in the movie. If I were to tell the bishop I could get “excommunicated.” But if I was making a sculpture of a nude body, would I be treated the same? Please explain the difference to me. Also, does a member get “excommunicated” for watching Braveheart? But the filmmaker could. Just my feelings. I’m certainly not trying to create controversy. I just can’t overcome this with out understanding “why?”
I just read the series “Twilight” as my kids are pretty jazzed about it. Stephanie Meyer is LDS and she handled a lot of sexual themes in her story and I haven’t heard that her membership is on the line. I found her way to be tasteful, yet very effective as I wanted to jump my H after reading a few selected chapters. There have been other things that do offend my sensibilities in films and content that I think insults the intelligence of the viewer. I think there are ways of portraying aspects of sexual feeling and expression without being explicit. I am thinking of a scene from the movie “Horse Whisperer” where Robert Redford is dancing with the leading lady. Holy fan the flames, Batman! There is no need for nudity or using human sexuality to sell films. And I think a sculptor can cross the line just as easily as a film maker. I think there are ways of being creative without compromising on standards. I am reminded of what Will Smith’s grandmother told him about his rap lyrics as she taught him that swearing wasn’t creative. Why do we think intelligent dialogue and adult themes must be explicit for them to be effective? And maybe there will be delimma for you where your spiritual and creative sensibilities conflict. But couldn’t that conflict stretch your creative abilities to new heights? I think there is lots of wiggle room here if one has the courage to explore.
Godlives – Quote:I found myself in mediocrity, not because I wasn’t capable of better, but because I shot the worst script I ever wrote because I couldn’t bring myself to shoot the script that challenged my Mormonism, and this was the only other script available.
This statement reminded me of something I’ve heard said before: mediocrity rewards mediocrity; excellence rewards excellence. The church is not a creative enclave, au contraire. The church, like your average Walmart, is mostly full of bored housewives, unfulfilled dreams, and unruly children. I understand your fear, and especially your unique predicament. I know there are stories that can be told that require courage, but also don’t offend the sensibilities of the church. I wouldn’t be worried about “raw” content (nudity, drugs, swearing)–IMO what the church doesn’t tolerate is brand damage. If you can avoid brand damage to the church, you can tell whatever stories you choose (again IMO). I do think filmmaking is an industry that’s tough on a Mormon lifestyle, though. Rick Schroeder (LDS convert) is a friend of a friend, and I have heard anecdotally that some of the networking aspect of the industry is very difficult for those who choose to life a Mormon lifestyle, similar to what you have mentioned.
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