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Well, we’ve had five instances of bullying my daughter in our Ward in the last three years. The most dramatic was described here on StayLDS when the youth put duct tape over her mouth, dragged her into a room, tried to tie up her feet and hands, after which they were going to lock her in a room. She struggled free. There have since been other incidents. The Bishopric has dealt with the problem appropriately each time, as have we in trying to get parents of the bullying youth aware of what happened. I’m satisfied with the efforts of our Bishopric to deal with each instance of bullying. We have also looked long and hard at my daughter’s behavior, and although I’m open to negative feedback, none has been fortcoming from the leaders, the youth, or my daughter about any bad behavior on her part. She is a good kid, but very small, and quite attractive and talented. We think it may be jealousy that prompts such behavior from some of the other kids.
Another incident happened last week, so my wife, who is growing more and more dissaffected with the experience in our Ward, insisted we go to a ward close by, in a different Stake. We found two other families who used to be in our Ward who have not changed jobs, but consciously bought houses in this Ward. Same thing happened with another Ward we attended recently in yet another neighbouring Stake, there was a family there who consciously bought out of our Ward due to above average negative experiences in our existing Ward.
My wife is encouraging us to buy a house in a different Ward so my daughter learns that it can feel safer and kinder in a different Ward.
I have to say I like the experience of another Ward. The opportunity to blend in, start fresh, and know that “legally”, you can’t even be asked to have a calling. Therefore, service will be voluntary and service oriented, independent of any calling imperatives.
Who knows what we will do, but my wife and I liked going to a different Ward on an experimental basis. The kids are nervous and don’t like having to meet new people. But my daughter really liked Sunday School. And my son made a few new friends. Who knows where this will lead. I think the experience was good for my family and I’m prepared to take it one step at a time.
Any advice on how to mesh with a new Ward in a new Stake after dissaffection on an experimental basis? What should one’s goals be as we take this one step at a time? What might we expect from the leaders there if they see us attending regularly?
I haven’t had interaction with leaders as we’ve tried visiting other wards, but we’ve never stayed consistently going to a different ward, we just pop in and out of several different ward from time to time. Only advice I have is that we openly talked to our kids about what we were thinking, because they were wondering what was up.
I think it can be hardest on the kids because they have friends and such. But for your daughter, I’m not sure what you are finding, but I would think she’d want to go be with another group. How does she feel? Have you talked to her?
First, given what you shared, I think attending a different ward is a good thing. I think you read my comment in another thread about my approach to moving into a new ward, but here is the link:
http://forum.staylds.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=3090&p=38511&hilit=moved#p38511 Heber — my daughter is ambivalent. LIke most kids, they don’t know if they like things at first, and it takes a bit of socialization and experience before they engage with it. She detests the bullying and lately, we’ve been sitting out at a bench outside the Church for a personal Sunday School class because the kids are so mean and unruly, adn the teacher so unprepared. On the other hand, she likes our existing Ward when people are nice to her. She is not thrilled about going to another Ward, but she comes home regularly upset about the way the girls treat her in our Ward, and she has no friends. They never invite her to do things. Ray — I like your strategy. I did the same thing last Sunday in the new Ward – wore black pants, black shoes, white shirt and tie A bit like Ghandi — he dressed like the people he was associating with (the masses) and then through that process gained acceptance and eventually influence. Not that I’m out to change the world or cause a revolution, but it certainly gives you more room to move if you enter the new culture positively.
I did ask a thought-provoking question in HP Group when they went on an on about not criticizing leaders, sustaining leaders, never saying “no” to a calling. It was a soft question about how one balances the need for leaders to receive valuable feedback on their leadership with the need for members to be supportive of leaders. If we aren’t allowed to provide criticism of our leaders, or at least, constructive feedback, how do they get that valuable information? Is it all about sustaining the leaders? What about the needs of the members in the equation? Led to a discussion on new ground.
Beyond that, I said nothing.
SD, I’ve read your story a number of times & I commend you (& your family) for being so patient. I’m not sure that I could under these circumstances.
When things like this occur, is there any other recourse other than moving to another ward?
This seems very drastic & doesn’t solve the problem within the ward.
I know others within the church who have had problems & their solution was to move also.
When is it acceptable to go up the chain (stake level)?
I don’t have the answers. I’m just asking questions.
Mike from Milton.
SD, Having moved all over and been in a million different wards, the best I advice I can offer comes in three short words:
Don’t bring baggage.
Every ward has its own dynamics, weird personalities, and every bishopric and stake presidency create their own “command climate”. Walk in a blank slate. Let what is good in the place fill you and allow the chaff to just blow away, so long as it doesn’t directly cause injury.
I’ve made the mistake of bring “my last ward” with me and I’ve made the choice to let the new ward be a place of rebirth. Inevitably, the latter approach worked best. You may have to teach your children to do this in a very clear way – announce a year of jubilee, forgive old debts, and move on. Sit shiva for old wounds, bury hard feelings, whatever it takes to drive this concept home. And then be done with the hurt from your old ward. Smile at those who hurt you as if they were strangers and nothing had ever happened and simply enjoy life among a new community of saints.
I like M&G’s advice. Made much easier by the fact we’ll be benchwarmers in the experimental Ward since we don’t actually live in the Ward boundaries. But we could be unofficial contributors there, from the heart — which is what I want right now anyway. Regarding it being drastic Mike…I don’t know, our experience in our current Ward has been drastic — and I’ve lived in over 22 Wards if you include the fourteen I served within as a missionary (sometimes two or three at the same time). None of them have been like this — bad leadership, bad youth program, bullying, bad programs, with a flashes of good here and there. There has been a significant amount of more good in other Wards. And, I hope you see from our history, I stuck it out in all the other Wards and Stakes even when it was tough, although with varying levels of activity. We’ve been in this Ward for over six years now, and never thought of leaving until the repeated bullying took the helm and my daughter started questioning if it’s like this everywhere.
So it’s not as if we’re complainers wherever we go, we just got a turkey Ward this time, and our patience and best efforts up to this point are making us realize we should experiment and see if it’s worth it to move out of our particular Ward. Who knows — we are only taking baby steps now.
SD, One more quick note…
We opted to be “visitors” in a ward for a while due to a 6 month temporary change of station. I thought it would be a nice change and we were returning to our regular ward three states away afterward so I didn’t see the sense in accepting callings and getting very involved. The folks were nice to us and we fit in well enough but never really made friends. I felt like an outsider.
I learned the hard way that the distance I wanted to maintain for my own benefit also served to undermine any meaningful integration. It’s a lay church after all and we grow best individually, and as a community when we are all invested in each other.
Just something to consider…
Love to you and yours!
Cate
I realize that may happen. And at this point, I think I’m OK with it. What is nice that there are several families we know in that Ward. One that was considering moving into our current Ward from Utah, who we invited over for dinner when they were learning about the area and deciding where to move. The relationship has persisted and flourished. My wife has gone on short trips with the woman to New York… and their kids are the same age as my son and daughter. We even visited them in Utha where they keep a second home on a trip, and did some excursions with them there. Another person who was EQP when I was HPGL, and who wants to learn how to construct an eco-friendly trailer turned up in that Ward…we have worked on construction projects so he can learn in my home (an air conditioner installation) and will likely get together again for another project based on our conversation on Sunday. And yet another family that we knew casually in our existing Ward who moved to that Ward. Could be a good segway to meet other families.
Again, who knows where it will lead, but it certainly is energizing and makes you want to rethink your current relationship with the church at large. Fresh starts are wonderful places for checking baggage at the door.
Hey SD, My family recently switched wards as well. You may read about it here:
http://forum.staylds.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=2976&hilit=+bishop There were some of the same issues you mentioned (including some queen bee bullying behavior where my 6 yr old daughter was the target) in the old ward. We made the change at the beginning of the year under the guise of needing to work Sunday mornings.
The new ward has been mostly great! When we see people from the old ward it is not nice. They are prone to gossip anyway and so there is a lot of speculation about it. Now after 4 months of attending the new ward we will be renting a place inside the new ward boundaries. We needed a bigger place anyway so the move is fortuitous on multiple levels. We are much happier in the new ward.
For us the key has been to come up with a plausible excuse for the change that doesn’t villify the old ward. The work schedule seemed to be the best option for us.
Good advice. You don’t want to burn bridges when you switch wards. I made that mistake as a 23 year old…had dated several women in a Ward and decided not to marry them. The women in the ward were angry at me for breaking these girl’s hearts. So, when I took a job in a city 2 hours away, people In my existing area asked how I felt about leaving, and I was honest that I wouldn’t miss all the gossip. Well, for years afterwards, people would tell me that everyone thought I hated the area and that I was glad to see the back of everyone etcetera when I moved, although my feelings were not THAT strong.
So, best keep these reasons to oneself, although I suspect others will guess why we’re doing it.
But I don’t have a decent. non-villifying excuse to be visiting other Wards — Other than to say we wanted to shake things up a bit just for variety, and that we’d be back — visit our old Ward once a month.
Well DW is now relieved at being able to say that we are moving to the other ward. She ran into someone from the old ward that was asking questions and DW responded that we are actually moving into the new ward so it only makes sense that we attend there and get to know our new ward family. As you may of read from my experience – even the work schedule excuse was only received with mixed results (they couldn’t challenge it to our face but they still speculated behind our backs [according to Bishop, speculation even included the idea that we were too lazy to get up and to church on time]). The moving reason is sooo much better because even if they doubt your reasons, the act of a move means that you are no longer their problem.
SilentDawning wrote:Good advice. You don’t want to burn bridges when you switch wards. I made that mistake as a 23 year old…had dated several women in a Ward and decided not to marry them. The women in the ward were angry at me for breaking these girl’s hearts. So, when I took a job in a city 2 hours away, people In my existing area asked how I felt about leaving, and I was honest that I wouldn’t miss all the gossip.
Just like in job interviews or dating – you don’t talk bad about the ex to the new, it makes you look bad.
Quote:Just like in job interviews or dating – you don’t talk bad about the ex to the new, it makes you look bad.
Excellent general rule – and if you do talk badly about the old people, the new people always will be concerned about what you’ll share with others about them. It’s kind of like a mistress who breaks up a marriage having nagging doubts about her new husband’s fidelity to her. It can drive wedges into relationships very quickly – or, at least, cause a gulf that wouldn’t exist otherwise.
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