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Paradoxically the problem is that people become very attached (in a non-creepy way, hopefully 😆 ) to a particular missionary, and get baptized by him. Then they soon find out he gets transferred and the folk have to start making social bonds afresh. In other words, it’s not just the folk in the ward, it’s the hoards of missionaries that any new member gets to make, and mostly forget quickly.Quote:it is something often used by the antis who point out that there are far fewer than the 15 million reported members in church, and in some places it’s so bad that members don’t even identify as members in the census. That leads to the church saying there are x number of members in a certain country while the country says there are only y number.
There aren’t fifteen million members, no way near. In the decade or more when I was out of the church, was I a member? Was another guy in the ward who was out of the ward for twenty years a member? Questionable, although both of us returned eventually.
I think we get into the millions on real life figures, but not up to the fourteen million mark. Probably more like five or more, with a number of cultural and lapsed ones who are not anti.
It’s far more complex then conviction and friendship. Nearly all the people I know who no longer attend do joy consider themselves Mormon but are still on the rolls somewhere. They just stopped attending. They can conviction once, but like a new gung-ho cop in the police unit. The gung-honess becomes draining and they can no longer keep it up and they begin to settle into who they are. Trying to do what they feel is right without all the gung-honess. Since being at church is like hanging out with the new gung-ho recruit. The quickly lose interest. A life style choice they will never make no matter there conviction. Just to draining. Baptisms are made in the heat of the moment. The passion, the feeling, the energy. That doesn’t last long usually even with friends. Soon or latter they feel “pushed”. Once things start to feel forced they are on their way out. Usually mentally first, others after being baptized realize they don’t fit in from the outset and a my rid of things not discussed about that they don’t feel comfortable get brought up step by step that they are not are did not “sign up” for. It’s not just a LDS thing though. Demanding religions are on the way out for the new generations. There are some areas that don’t have much to do and enjoy the added load. In major metropolises though there is enough to do just to make life work without adding burden on top. In my experience members who friendship new coverts would work for around 10% of the coverts to stay. For many it wouldn’t address the main problems of being overwhelmed with various aspects or just delay the departure by a few years. As a TBM growing up I actively sought marginalized members and converts. But their is little to nothing that changed the situation. The very things that make the system work and unique to some members harm just as many others. Friendship only helped a little, but almost never enough to change the situation from negative to positive for the person. Stuck I’m a system that for them is hindering not helping them.
A side note. Volunteer org. Which I have done since age 12, are problematic with come tweet shortages when the economy or life is hectic for people. Like an emotional budget, they cut the excess when life gets rough. Has been my experience. Which is altogether rather “human”.
I think part of the reason is that the American and Canadian areas see the White Shirt, tie, and nametag and think “Oh No, Mormons”. The barriers go up, and no one wants to talk. I think if they dressed differently and tried different strategies it might work better. As an ideator, I had a lot of unique ways of generating interest in Mormonism, but they were rejected because they “were not the program of the church”.
At this point I decided not to support the missionary effort any more if they were going to use the same old, tried-old, rejection-laden approach to missionary work.
In a way, I’m pleased the ratio of new missionaries to new convert baptisms is so low. Not because I don’t want to see failure, but because failure changes leaders’ minds.
And our leaders’ need a strong dose of failure in a number of areas to change their minds. Although I think we have a lot of talented, good-hearted men leading us, there is strong church arrogance toward policies that prevent change, such as a belief that statements by prophets 30 years ago are so inspired they can’t be challenged or modified in our modern time.
Bring of non-success so we can eventually have progress again.
SilentDawning wrote:I think part of the reason is that the American and Canadian areas see the White Shirt, tie, and nametag and think “Oh No, Mormons”. The barriers go up, and no one wants to talk.
This is not just in North America. A friend of mine got spoken to them recently and said that they looked as if they came from another planet. And to continue that theme a family I drove in one Sunday, one of the daughters said that the carpark, which was full of besuited people “was like Men in Black”.
If you see someone in a suit, you tend to think they’re either with the government (FBI or NSA in your neck of the woods perhaps), an arrogant businessman, Hasidic or Amish (some obscure group like that) or, I suppose a Mod. But there aren’t many Mods around these days. The associations are NOT positive. The Mormons love the word authority, but don’t see the innate sense of threat that that word comes with for many people who have been bullied by those in authority, rightly or wrongly.
I see the day when all missionaries are pulled out of the United States and ward missions run the work here. Old-Timer wrote:I see the day when all missionaries are pulled out of the United States and ward missions run the work here.
I look forward to that day. As long as there is no forceful push or Shane or correlation to teach non members the gospel.
I have had a lot of success with investigators that didn’t respond well to the missionaries. Honest, truthful, unrehearsed, without looking or sounding like part of a sales team. As well as being candid goes along ways with many people.
I guess I few up in a generation where if stories didn’t go through a range of emotions abject rulings and failures. If they are happy go luck stories of excitement like a Disneyish movie. They are rejected in the mind as not being real. Disney suffers the sane negative perception in my experience as much as a Apple world developer conference.
It’s where the strength of the ward lies. Can’t think of a single person my generation or younger that didn’t talk to the missionaries when I referenced them to answer questions and didn’t feel they we’re a rehearsed, trained sales team.
That’s been my experience because they told me they didn’t want to hear more from them and defeated back to me to answer their questions. They stated why pretty clearly to me.
Old-Timer wrote:I see the day when
all missionaries are pulled out of the United States and ward missions
run the work here.
I suppose it depends which community. The Hispanic community probably needs missionaries more than white Utahns who are all aware of the church. There are also places they never visit.
If China and/or India allow missionaries . . . Hastening the work would be a mild description of how many missionaries we could send there alone. It is that potential that drives what I said in my last comment.
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