Internal evidence BofM

[Anonymous]

leavingthecave25 wrote:

the internal consistency has always been something that has really impressed me.

I agree with you that the BOM is astoundingly complex and is a miracle in its own right. For me there is another form of consistency that leads me to believe that some part of Joseph ends up on each and every page.

The bible is not consistent, it contradicts itself and evolves. It spends great amounts of time talking about obscure issues (like circumcision or ritual cleansing) that were really big and divisive at the time. I imagine that if Abraham, Moses, Jeremiah, Paul, Martin Luther, Joseph Smith, and BRM were all locked in the same room for too long it might very well come to blows (or at least heated words). All were great men of extraordinary talent but also with different ways of doing/seeing things. The same things that make them great leaders (self-confidence, stubborn resolve) would also play into the conflict.

The BOM is too good at its job for me to believe that it is a mere transcription of ancient records. For me, It is too consistent and “on message” doctrinally to have been the direct writings of many different men from great lengths of time. Also for me, the conflicts that it resolves were all very current and relevant to the 19th century.

Even with these conclusions (that are my own and are not representative of the management of this site), there are still a range of theories for the origination of the BOM that would still fit. Regardless of my pet theories on the book, I find inspiration in it. It “works” for me and is therefore “true” and useful.

[Anonymous]

mercyngrace wrote:

PS Curt, would you link the podcast or tell us where to find it?

Thanks!

It is a 5 part series, MS podcasts #307-311

Very good responses from Brother Gardner. I think they are good apologetic arguments. I like hearing some people recognize the issues, but focus on things they can’t deny that keep them believing, even with the recognized problems. It seems real to me.

I liked these.

[Anonymous]

Roy wrote:

The BOM is too good at its job for me to believe that it is a mere transcription of ancient records. For me, It is too consistent and “on message” doctrinally to have been the direct writings of many different men from great lengths of time.

That is something else I noticed on my mission; it is too clean. The Bible and a lot of other ancient works have a lot of loose ends. I could play the role of an apologist though and say that this is because with the exception of 1 Nephi through Omni, it WAS written by one person.

I agree with the 19th century influence though. The ideas of American Exceptionalism which occur throughout smell a little fishy to me. Especially the prophesies about Columbus and the Pilgrims.

[Anonymous]

Quote:

It spends great amounts of time talking about obscure issues (like circumcision or ritual cleansing) that were really big and divisive at the time.

Bear in mind that these still are big issues for millions of people in the world, including Jews, Muslims and certain Christian sects (some Christian groups still try to follow Kosher etc)

[Anonymous]

leavingthecave25 wrote:

That is something else I noticed on my mission; it is too clean. The Bible and a lot of other ancient works have a lot of loose ends. I could play the role of an apologist though and say that this is because with the exception of 1 Nephi through Omni, it WAS written by one person.

I agree with the 19th century influence though. The ideas of American Exceptionalism which occur throughout smell a little fishy to me. Especially the prophesies about Columbus and the Pilgrims.

Even as I wrote my comment, I knew what the apologetic thought on this was. Theoretically if Mormon saw our day and the messages that where most needed in our day, he could cherry pick narratives that produced those messages. Thus it is said that the BOM was written for our day. As you pointed out, the same reasoning can be used to explain why the BOM is so clean – because Mormon cut all the loose ends out.

I believe that this apologetic argument is a pretty viable position.

SamBee wrote:

It spends great amounts of time talking about obscure issues (like circumcision or ritual cleansing) that were really big and divisive at the time.

Bear in mind that these still are big issues for millions of people in the world, including Jews, Muslims and certain Christian sects (some Christian groups still try to follow Kosher etc)

This is true, I guess what I meant was that circumcision is no longer the dominant conflict in general christianity and it appears to have been during NT times.

[Anonymous]

Actually there is an interesting mention of Mosaic law in Enos, where Enos criticizes the Lamanites… he says that they eat “Beasts of Prey”. This is not mentioned in the text, but these are clearly unclean/non-kosher animals.

[Anonymous]

Quote:

I’m fully aware of all the external problems with the Book of Mormon, but the level of internal complexity and consistency is still perplexing for me. It is not a simple fiction novel.

Totally agree. I’m not sure what to think in the grand scheme of things re: the BOM. I’ve had unmistakeable spiritual experiences involving it, and yet kind of find it hard to fathom that it was revealed to JS while peering into an old brown hat with a white rock inside. How is my reason supposed to reconcile those two things? I don’t believe it to be a fabrication from whole cloth, but I also don’t necessarily believe it to be a factual historical record.

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