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tyler90mi wrote:
Heber, since you have been in leadership positions what do they annotate on membership records?
I’ve never been bishop. Only 2nd counselor and 1st counselor in the bishopric and stake High Counselor…but never in my exposure was there anything to annotate past sins or actions that would follow a member’s records that I remember. Others might know better…but my recollection was that if it was something a bishop felt was important, it was done on the side in their personal notes, and sometimes something that they would call a new bishop when records transfer and let them know about…but I wasn’t aware of annotations in the system.For example, I’ve been divorced. I don’t think that is in the membership record for leaders to see. Just when I moved, my new bishop called my old bishop who gave some background to my situation and what I went through for my divorce, so the new bishop talked to me about it. I think they handle that discretely and because they care about how I am recovering for divorce, and of course, I could never be called as bishop now that I’m divorced. But I don’t believe it is annotated in records.
My guess is that if something was talked about with a prior bishop, and that bishop gets released or you move…the new bishop would never know unless they specifically went out of their way to call the prior bishop and talk about, if they felt impressed it was important to know when considering future callings.
As nibbler said, don’t rehash past sins…have faith the Lord forgives, that baptisms washes those things away so you can focus on moving forward in life, and the sacrament is a reminder each week that things in the past are gone. I also don’t know details and don’t need to know…but just a “homosexual experience” isn’t a sin in my book any more than a “heterosexual experience” that is beyond a certain point of violation of law of chastity. If others are making into something more, I think that is about them, not about God. With homosexuality, as I see it…substitute the same experience with opposite sex and ask if it was something you’d have to confess. If not, then I don’t see it different. Just move on as we all do things in life and only need to confess serious things that cross a threshold of serious sin to confess. I don’t think many things require that.
Anyone else know about annotations to member records? I just don’t think membership records include those kinds of things at all.
For the record, this is a part of the standard baptismal interview questions: http://www.lds.org/manual/preach-my-gospel-a-guide-to-missionary-service/how-do-i-prepare-people-for-baptism-and-confirmation ” class=”bbcode_url”> http://www.lds.org/manual/preach-my-gospel-a-guide-to-missionary-service/how-do-i-prepare-people-for-baptism-and-confirmation
Quote:4. Have you ever committed a serious crime? If so, are you now on probation or parole? Have you ever participated in an abortion? a homosexual relationship?
I don’t agree with it either, but it is there to be contended with.
Have you repented of what you did and do you feel forgiven by God? If so, you don’t need to confess.
For me, it isn’t more complicated than that.
Thanks for clarification nibbler. It is also worded vague. So that also means “relationship” is up for interpretation. Not to try to get out of something…nor wiggle out of something…but simply a point that we don’t need to read more into than we need to, IMO.
“relationship” is the word to consider…which may not be the same as “experience”. It may, but it may not. Depends on the individual circumstance.
Old-Timer wrote:Have you repented of what you did and do you feel forgiven by God?
If so, you don’t need to confess.
For me, it isn’t more complicated than that.
Simply put, Ray. Thanks!Do you know anything about annotations to membership records? Do they exist? I didn’t think so, but wasn’t aware of if they’ve been added recently or were there and I didn’t know about.
There are annotations for things like sexual abuse of children and other felonies. I have no idea about homosexuality. I hope not.
Heber13 wrote:Thanks for clarification nibbler.
It is also worded vague. So that also means “relationship” is up for interpretation. Not to try to get out of something…nor wiggle out of something…but simply a point that we don’t need to read more into than we need to, IMO.
“relationship” is the word to consider…which may not be the same as “experience”. It may, but it may not. Depends on the individual circumstance.
Good point. Is a one night stand (hetero- or homosexual) a “relationship?” For clarity, I’m not saying an individual who has had multiple one night stands should answer chastity questions as though there was nothing there, but if, like in the OP, it was a one time thing (and many teens do experiment) then I think it’s fine to answer there was no relationship.
That said, this brings up another part of gay discrimination or double standard. If a heterosexual was involved in multiple sexual relationships over a period of years (or decades) before baptism but was currently living the LoC, he/she would be considered worthy of baptism. However, if a homosexual (or bisexual) was involved in one relationship, even short term, there is cause for concern. (I will note that in considering missionary worthiness there is less of a double standard – those who have been involved with multiple sex partners are seemed equally unable to serve whether they were homosexual or not.)
Old-Timer wrote:There are annotations for things like sexual abuse of children and other felonies.
I have no idea about homosexuality. I hope not.
I think Ray is right. I think there may also be an annotation, at least at church headquarters, if there has ever been a disciplinary council. Additionally, bishops who are interviewing new ward members for callings or TR are supposed to contact the prior bishop if the person has been in the ward less than a certain amount of time (I don’t recall the time frame, but it’s more than just a couple months). Our bishop had to contact my son’s BYU bishop before he could submit his mission papers.The atonement covers sin, so God has already forgiven you for everything. You were baptized. So again, everything is gone.
Remember that we are all here to learn. Learning includes all kinds of mistakes.
If you feel like you need to talk to the bishop in order to forgive yourself, then go have that conversation. Otherwise, go live your life and focus on trying to be someone God is proud of.
Sometimes we are much harder on ourselves than God is.
Thanks for all the advice! I have to say I want to confess, but I don’t feel guilty about the act. My mind and soul are already numb from living with it so long. The Savior and Heavenly Father understand. My goal is to go completely straight in the gospel and I believe confession is a first step. I understand I will probably and rightfully be exed. It may not be a bad thing I need a fresh start. My fear is that I will get disgruntled with being exed and fall away again for a season. There is leader roulette, but I’m not sure excommunication is the likely outcome. Were I bishop I’d thank you for confessing, tell you that you didn’t need to do it, and move on. I don’t know your bishop so there is no way to know of his reaction – but I think excommunication is extreme (unless you’re also confessing that you have an ongoing sexual relationship). Again, just to reiterate, the church is not like Catholicism where confession to priesthood is a near necessity of repentance. As has been said, confession to a bishop/branch president/stake president in the church is mostly to seek help or in cases of very grievous sins where church discipline is absolutely necessary (adultery after baptism, crimes for which you can be imprisoned, incest/sexual abuse, etc.).
DarkJedi wrote:Is a one night stand (hetero- or homosexual) a “relationship?” For clarity, I’m not saying an individual who has had multiple one night stands should answer chastity questions as though there was nothing there, but if, like in the OP, it was a one time thing (and many teens do experiment) then I think it’s fine to answer there was no relationship.
I would think breaking the law of chastity is the issue. That is why the wording of that question is puzzling to me, which leads to my response.Homosexual or Heterosexual standard to me should be the same questions for baptism, not different standards. But…that may be me and the church doesn’t see it that way. Since I don’t know for sure…I would answer it how I feel good until someone corrected me. I think it is the law of chastity that would be the standard. I did not intend to mean an “experience” that violated the law of chastity.
Which is why I ended with “depends on personal circumstance.” I’m no authority on this obviously…just sharing my thoughts.
Welcome Tyler! I just wanted to share a few thoughts.
1) I am aware of a friend that confessed to a homosexual experience (oral sex in this case) that did not result in any formal discipline. I believe it was resolved with repeated visits and being instructed not to partake of the sacrament for a time. He later was approved for missionary service. I am sure that expressions of remorse and priesthood roulette will affect the outcome.
2) There does seem to be annotations for church discipline but not for SSA outside of the context of church discipline. This was clarified in the following thread:
http://forum.staylds.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=3628&p=46607&hilit=benji#p46607 I personally think that what happened b4 your baptism died with your old self. You are now raised up as a new creature in Jesus Christ. Let go of the old self and find joy in the present.
If you feel the need to confess, deep in your soul, do it. However, if it was before your baptism, the baptism symbolically cleansed you of your previous sins. That s true no matter the nature of the sin. If it could work for King Lamoni and his people, given the severity of what they had done, it is true for you.
If I were you, I would pray and ask God if he has forgiven you and if He wants you to confess. If you feel God wants you to confess, do it; if you don’t get a “yes” answer to your prayer, let go and accept that you have been forgiven and don’t need to confess to a mortal.
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