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SilentDawning wrote:
And one thing that bothers me is that the post above implies that a key component of the service’s value is in its potential for missionary work. I firmly believe it doesn’t have to be about the church all the time. That pure service is good for its own sake, and sometimes, for the sake of one’s growth and well-being. It can also help with church burnout, as a change can be as good as a rest.I agree there is some implication in the articles that community service benefits the church, particularly in the missionary area. However, there are a couple interesting things in the “Tips” article (emphasis added):
Quote:Let your works prove your commitment; let your consistent, dedicated service speak for itself.
Be patient if it takes time to build credibility, to prove you’re not there simply to do missionary work.Quote:Don’t try to make your involvement in community service a missionary opportunity.Others are often wary of Latter-day Saint attempts to proselyte them, and if you fulfill their expectations in this regard, it puts barriers between you and them. Be assured that if you simply serve diligently in a Christlike manner, they will notice. You will be advancing the cause of the gospel whether or not they join the Church. Quote:Approach service in your community with no thought of any particular benefit or personal opportunity except to make your city or area better.
Quote:Focus on the beliefs or attitudes and practices you have in common with others who serve in the community, not on differences. Whatever they may feel or express about Latter-day Saint beliefs or practices, let them see your desire is to make the community better.
Good quotes. I intend to read and print off the articles in case there is a need for it. I want to add – I also offered to do a podcast to a less than orthodox member who runs a website with podcats…about community service. I thought I could make it palatable to TBM’s by focusing on these ideas.
1. That I noticed a higher level of relationship skills in the LDS church than in the two organizations I served in the community. That people in the LDS church brought a higher standard of behavior regarding relationships than these organizations. For example, the church people had less gossip, less back-biting, etcetera. It showed the gospel does influence behavior positively.
2. That service in the community can rejuvinate church service. A change is as good as a rest…
3. I discovered talents I didn’t know I had — even late in life, at 50 years of age. That church service can develop certain talents, but only within a certain range.
4. That I realized we are not so “peculiar” a people as I sometimes thought. That all volunteer organizations suffer from many of the same issues — such as lack of follow-through from volunteerism, tendencies to put the organization’s success ahead of its mission. Non-believers who stand in the way of your mission.
5. That one should expect flack from family members and even church members who tend not do value community service as much as church service. But could quote conference and other articles by church writers citing the value of this service.
6. That community service does not preclude church service — that I was able to still serve in the church while serving in the community in certain capacities.
The operator of the podcast site didn’t write back…so I guess this topic just doesn’t resonate with people in the LDS church….
Ray already said something to the effect of what I was thinking Old-Timer wrote:I appreciate everything you are doing in the Church, and my balance might change in the future. Right now, this feels right for me.
Another wording could be, “I really admire your dedication and efforts you put into your church calling”, but I realize that will placate some and others it could do the opposite.
Best of luck and I am sorry things are being so troubling right now. I hope you at least get a few days over the holidays to relax and regroup.
SilentDawning wrote:I agree with all of this. I guess part of me felt I could gain acceptance within the LDS church by pointing to my community service efforts. That people would accept those as a valid alternative to church service. Not so. The small sample I have taken shows me that 66% of the dedicated, TBM people reject the notion that community service is a valid form of service over the long-term. 1/3 of this sample (bpric member) was neutral on it, or perhaps didn’t share their true feelings.
Perhaps part of me thought I could not follow the party line in church of never saying no to a calling, while still receiving validation and respect for service to humanity. Not so. There was a close brush with success in this arena when the Stake Public Communications person was planning to call me about some kind of recognition in papers or the church news but that never happened. Perhaps they saw my unorthodoxy and decided I wasn’t a good example of a Mormon to be worthy of such recognition (I won a community service award for my efforts last year.
Yeah, I think that is a big part of it SD. The traditional assumption is that everyone needs to be involved in church service. I remember a friend of mine that returned home from his mission while still in the MTC. When he later went on dates with LDS girls and the topic came around to missionary service he tried to explain to them that a two year mission is not for everybody. I believe that logically every GA would acknowledge that there are circumstances that would “honorably release” an individual from the expectation to serve a mission. However, my friend could not get a second date if his life depended on it. He was a second date pariah.
When I talk to extended family or old LDS friends they often ask what I am up to in the church. Once I was between callings and I told my friend that I was a home teacher. He argued with me that this was not a “real” calling. This isn’t exclusive to church of course. When a man asks another man what they “do” the correct answer is what they do as a paid job. Answers about how they love to coach little leage on the weekends, or create art in their study, or are working on a book of poetry are not seen as valid and may be seen as evasive and suspicious. As if the real intent of the question is to say…”Show me your man card and tell me how you bring home the bacon or are you a limp-wristed lazy shirker?” (warning: sarcasm present
I’ve always felt that service in the church was meantto help teach people to serve in all walks in life. When service appears to be too inward we’d do well to remember that the gospel was eventually given to the gentiles.
Love the man card….Mormon man card — your calling and TR…and the age at which you were first called to be HP, Bp or SP… When it comes to church service, never have so many worked so hard and accomplished so little. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Cadence wrote:When it comes to church service, never have so many worked so hard and accomplished so little.
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I have to echo this sentiment. We have promises that “if ye shall spend all of your days crying unto me, and bring yet one soul unto me, how great will your joy be in heaven”…but they seem so distant, and frankly, tiresome.
If/when I engage with a calling again, time will be invested in those initiatives that have a high spiritual ROI. It will mean making existing programs strong, strengthening the people that are there, and having something inspiring for people join when they spontaneously come back to church. No more chasing down stone cold people. No more cleaning up Ward records! No more catering to the unilateral whims of stake leaders. And there will be investment in showing appreciation for the people who are currently attending. There will be appreciation for the people who get released, and attention to their feelings and motives for service.
I believe that at any given time there is a percent of people who are on the verge of leaving. Had Ward leaders been more sensitive to my own feelings about service, less demanding, more co-missioning, I firmly believe that I would still be an active, serving TR holder today.
While not all people will react as I do, I also know that strong programs, and spiritual Sundays did a lot to jolt me back into full TR status at one point in my lifetime. I would hope to duplicate that success for the good of many other people.
True, Cadence – except when it isn’t true. I have seen some amazing things accomplished by church service – and we have stories from our past of even more amazing things accomplished by the united efforts of members.
Old-Timer wrote:True, Cadence – except when it isn’t true.
I have seen some amazing things accomplished by church service – and we have stories from our past of even more amazing things accomplished by the united efforts of members.
Of course members do some amazing things. I have witnessed it. But the church has many activities they call service but are in reality make work projects. Many provide little Actual benefit. They are mostly to the church’s benefit not the members. The temple comes to mind.
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You are correct, Cadence, about lots of service things – but the temple is completely subjective in that regard. Old-Timer wrote:You are correct, Cadence, about lots of service things – but the temple is completely subjective in that regard.
For some people, they think they are really having an impact on the salvation of people who have passed on — they think they are ending years, decades or eras of deceased peoples’ waiting for the ordinances. Others think that going to the temple gives them some kind of special power. From Rough Stone Rolling, JS thought that if the saints went through the newly constructed temple, got the endowment, and then formed an army to retake their lost lands, they would be endowed with special power to overcome their enemies.
I think the value of the temple depends almost wholly on the person’s faith in the ordinances and experience. I personally never bonded with it. Partly because I tend not to function well in highly structured environments where every minute action you take is subject to scrutiny and correction. Being a veil worker was the absolute worst experience for me in that regard. In the space of a couple hours, I was corrected probably 5 times, chastised for discussing how I got a traffic ticket that day, with someone who raised a similar topic while we were waiting for our wave of temple-goers to pass through the temple.
I believe that was the last time I ever went, even though I held a TR for a couple years after that.
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