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I don’t want to go into specifics here, because I’m not really wanting a political debate, but I got extremely annoyed the other day over one of our older American missionaries giving us a political lecture in Sunday School the other day. I’ll try and keep it general. It was not only the fact that she hasn’t been in this country long, but the fact that she came out with a bunch of statements that she assumed we’d all agree with. I pulled her over afterwards and told her politely that she shouldn’t expect everyone to agree with her.
When it comes to politics, you can’t really come out with stuff like that without someone holding a different opinion.
It almost makes me wonder if I should voice political opinion in church, but I don’t like to, and try and keep my mouth shut as much as possible. It’s sometimes difficult, especially when ill informed arguments are made.
This is not the first time. Sometimes we get locals making stupid statements too. Political literacy is not our ward’s strong point. We’ve one person involved in national politics (peripherally), but most have no opinion of it.
I pretty much keep my mouth shut on politics at church, but do sometimes just make clarifying remarks that not all Mormons are Republicans, just to remind people of that. I like your approach to quietly pull them aside…that can be respectful. :thumbup: Heber13 wrote:sometimes just make clarifying remarks that not all Mormons are Republicans, just to remind people of that.
And that not all sitting apostles are Republicans. I tell people that regardless of what they think or Senator Reid’s politics, his very existence proves that you can’t paint all Mormons with the same brush. He’s like the original “and I’m a Mormon” commercial.
I squirm whenever politics gets mentioned in church – and I respond whenever I think it’s gone too far. Usually, it’s just: “Getting back to the Gospel” – with a huge grin on my face.
The absolute worst is what these kids say. It’s like they are being raised by Donald Trump and Michelle Bachmann, listening to the banter around the dining table, then coming to my SS class and regurgitating it all undigested. I think that a number of members are “one-issue” party members. They focus on one issue and then affiliate with the party that supports that position. For example, some members are Republicans because Republicans don’t support abortion or because they support lower taxes. (Though I would guess that the issues focused on tend to be moral ones). They don’t really understand the entire party platform. Ultimately, I don’t care to hear people’s politics discussed in Church (regardless of what they may be). I’ve found myself cringing on more than one occasion in a Sunday School class when someone makes a political crack and the entire room erupts into a knowing titter. As has been pointed out, it’s erroneous to assume everyone in there is on the same page politically. Politics and religion are two of the most divisive and polarizing topics to discuss in a group setting (i.e. in the office, at family gatherings, etc.) We’re already talking about religion…
😆 It’s probably wise to only tackle one of those topics at Church. I do similar to what others have said: I point out that not everyone at church shares the same political views, and we should probably get back to discussing The Gospel.
Yeah, the whole Republican/Democrat thing bores me as a foreigner who doesn’t live in the USA(I can’t see much difference between them in the wider scale of things), but it would bother me as a Democrat. (A quick scout round the web shows that there are certain notable LDS members of both parties, but to be honest, Mitt Romney’s the only guy we’ve heard of over here) I’m aware of Glenn Beck, but I’d put money on the fact that I’d be the only member of the ward (barring Americans) who’d ever heard of him. I do find the problem with certain people, is that they assume statements X, Y, & Z are all givens, and that everyone agrees with them. Actually, one of the issues I can address is that she made out that we have total freedom in this country. Unfortunately, I’m all too familiar with certain human rights abuses that have occurred here, and legal anomalies. Gross oversimplification never did anyone any favours.
On several occasions, for example, local electoral ballots have gone missing. You can blame cock-up or conspiracy, but it makes you wonder how much your vote counts for. A few years ago, a local journalist was able to walk right into the place that ballots were stored, and could have taken any of them. Naturally it got front page coverage. In other areas of this country, some people claim elections are interfered with in this way as well.
An acquaintance of mine – we’ll call him “T” – died in police custody some years ago, he was supposed to have killed himself, but the evidence for that is extremely dubious. (T’s case is extremely similar to a more high profile one, which certain politicians in this country have campaigned for an enquiry on.) T’s death was also completely misreported by the press, who all seem to have stolen the details from one another, without bothering to do original research. T was more or less arrested on certain political related charges, which were trumped up. T had boating flares in his car, which were turned into “firearms” in media reports. (I suppose they technically are, but it’s still misrepresentation) He was also accused of being a member of an organisation which I’d frequently heard him criticise.
I also know people whose families used to work in mining, and who tell me all kinds of stories about police and political shennanigans. By the by, they also told me additional horrors about trade union abuses as well, with miner’s funds being ripped off as well, so I’m not just saying all this to get at the right.
In other words, just because I don’t live in the old East Germany, North Korea or Zimbabwe, doesn’t mean that I have the kind of freedom she thought we did, and there are forces in this society which desire us to have even less.
Brian Johnston wrote:Politics and religion are two of the most divisive and polarizing topics to discuss in a group setting (i.e. in the office, at family gatherings, etc.)
We’re already talking about religion…
😆 It’s probably wise to only tackle one of those topics at Church. I do similar to what others have said: I point out that not everyone at church shares the same political views, and we should probably get back to discussing The Gospel.
the big 3 are sex, politics, and religion. our religion, at least in the USA, tends to get into the other two…i personally enjoy politically incorrect discussion involving all three.
wayfarer wrote:Brian Johnston wrote:Politics and religion are two of the most divisive and polarizing topics to discuss in a group setting (i.e. in the office, at family gatherings, etc.)
We’re already talking about religion…
😆 It’s probably wise to only tackle one of those topics at Church. I do similar to what others have said: I point out that not everyone at church shares the same political views, and we should probably get back to discussing The Gospel.
the big 3 are sex, politics, and religion. our religion, at least in the USA, tends to get into the other two…i personally enjoy politically incorrect discussion involving all three.
I was always taught by my parents not to talk about those three.
Actually I’d add a fourth – race/gender/minority issues. Hunting and abortion are two other “avoids” for me too.
I find this very sad that we have to be so careful about expressing our views, opinions or even asking questions in church. I applaud anyone who has the strength to honestly communicate themselves. I, for one, don’t say anything unless someone says something to me first. How did develop? My wife is a graduate of BYU. We get the alumi magazine on a regular basis. Back in the ’70’s, I would enjoy reading the letters to the editor because there would always be someone who commented on an article written in the previous issue. I always enjoyed that because it gave me a view or opinion that I never considered when I read it the first time. I doesn’t mean that I agreed, but it was interesting see another side to the topic presented. It isn’t there anymore. That was the best part of the magazine.
I think it is a real weakness when we feel threaten by someone elses opinion or we feel threaten to express our own.
Regardless what the topic is.
Mike from Milton.
SamBee wrote:Yeah, the whole Republican/Democrat thing bores me as a foreigner who doesn’t live in the USA(I can’t see much difference between them in the wider scale of things)
Trust me. There are plenty of us that live here that have a hard time figuring out the difference between them too
😈 I understand what you’re saying Mike, but I try and leave my politics at the door. I just wish other people would. The problem is that a lot of people make political statements, without even being aware that they’re such. Outside the church, I’m very active in politics, so it’s good for me to rest from it.
Quote:Trust me. There are plenty of us that live here that have a hard time figuring out the difference between them too
Seems to be the way in most of the world. The two main Irish parties, Fianna Fail and Fine Gael split over whether they accepted British rule over Northern Ireland. In just about everything else, their views were fairly similar. It’s just that in the Irish civil war, which occurred decades ago, they took different sides. But one or the other has been ruling Ireland ever since.
Mike wrote:I think it is a real weakness when we feel threaten by someone elses opinion or we feel threaten to express our own.
Regardless what the topic is.
I think the general problem with discussing passionate topics, whether it’s religion or politics or hunting or abortion, is the people and not the topics themselves. You hit the nail on the head — the problem is people feeling anxiety, feeling threatened, when confronted with others who have different views.
I enjoy discussing controversial topics with people, but it only really works when the other people are comfortable and confident, AND can appreciate the reality of a nuanced and messy world.
My annoyance is that people bring stuff in with them, which is not related to the gospel, in the form of opinions, or politics or whatever, and expect everyone else to agree with them. Life doesn’t work out that way. I spend enough time trying to argue politics, without having to do it in church. It does annoy me however, how politically “illiterate” church members are round here. They believe oversimplified rubbish, and having to explain the complexities of certain issues, would detract from the lesson’s original subject.
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