Is a disengagement sometimes needed to engage?

[Anonymous]

When I responded to the “Terryl Givens” thread it made me think of something that probably should be a separate thread.

I have thought about how to get to where I could be more comfortable with being in the church. By that I mean attending most sacrament meetings, but not always going to the whole 3 hour block. Not always holding a ‘big’ calling, but willing to do some callings and quite willing to help someone move or give other help. I don’t want to be viewed as I am now (all in, full believer), but at the same time not be considered totally inactive.

I have stepped back any looked at many of the people that I see that are able to stay really “IN” the church, but not fully literally believing. One common theme is that they were inactive for at least a bit. One thing I have wondered about is if I just need to “get away” for a bit, or at least disengage a bit to reach a point where I can stay somewhat connected with the church. I wonder if that is what I need to “calm down” like Terryl Givens or Dan Witherspoon.

I think part of me resents the time commitment demanded by the church (I had 90 minutes of meetings before the 3 hour block on Sunday and another hour right afterward – and then an hour or so each night so far this week. It is not that I just want to sit and watch the Simpson’s. I am frustrated that I want to go do some community service that isn’t either “missionary oriented” or focused on serving members. I have almost always had a time consuming calling(s) my entire life. Also have a job that requires lots of hours (with little “breaks” where I can spend a few minutes on this and other items during the day. Even outside of church I am a bit burned out and worn out.

I realize that this is classic “you need to set boundaries”, but I am having a hard time figuring out how to gently “back out” of my callings being as “IN” as I am.

Part of me wants to just push it away a bit and just tell my bishop/SP, “look, I just don’t believe anymore. I am not angry and I am not looking to tear anyone’s faith down or have anyone else leave the church – in fact I will still tell others if it is bringing you to God – go for it – I support you. But I have tried my whole life and if I am honest, I don’t feel I have had God tell me this is true. God has told me that he is pleased when I help others and I choose to believe in a loving God.” That for sure is going to get my recommend yanked (I don’t care for that to happen, but I think I am where I am OK with it). I do realize that makes it much harder to come back in any way in the future.

I expect I will get some probing if I ask to be released. It won’t stop me from asking, but I am trying to think of this a few months before I act on them.

Any thoughts?

[Anonymous]

I think that sometimes those that were inactive and returned to the church have an easier time expressing themselves in their diversity. The narrative that most TBM can accept and get behind is that you once fell away but now have returned. It is a success story. A person in this position might be better received expressing the doubter/inactive viewpoint because they have been there and returned to tell about it.

I see the stepping back as the difficult part. How do you do so in a way that is respectful and doesn’t make waves – that isn’t seen as a cry for help or indicative of some moral failing in your life? It is seen as directionally backwards, as regression instead of progression.

[Anonymous]

I would say it is disengaging from trying to please bishops/leaders/ward members, and strengthening engagement to God and gospel principles.

It is no longer obeying out of fear or duty or obligation. It is prioritizing my values to obey to truly important principles, and accepting my capacity limits my ability to do be all things to all people, and so I choose the greater part. But it is still obedience. It is still engagement. It is transitioning the engagement from outward displays of engagement, to internal heart-felt engagement.

For me, the times I have not attended church are because I traded up for other activities (hiking in nature, Buddhist temples, time with my family, vacations and get-aways). I don’t view those as “inactive”. Just not as “anxiously engaged” at church as others think I should be. And that is OK to me, because I know that is about them and how they see things. But I am not engaged in what others think I should do. I am engaged in following my heart, honestly and not with justifications.

I do not think it requires going inactive to readjust and get to a soft landing place at church. Although I understand that for some that works. It doesn’t have to be the path for everyone. One alternative is just a relaxing while staying in the church, and giving yourself permission to skip when you can trade up. I also think it helps to follow nibbler’s example and keep a sense of humor.

Quote:

I am having a hard time figuring out how to gently “back out” of my callings being as “IN” as I am.

I think that is hard too. Perhaps you can try things and see what reactions are. Maybe it is easier than you think if you just try doing less at church because you are doing better in other areas of your life. There are many people who back away from callings without going inactive. Others back away, and you can too. If you took your turn, telling yourself it is someone else’s turn to step in like you have for years…you are providing others opportunities for blessings they want by letting them serve.

One thing I have learned is that I’m pretty insignificant in God’s great kingdom. If I bust my butt and serve…I feel good and the church moves forward without notice. If I do nothing, the church moves forward without notice. In fact…it doesn’t seem to make much difference except to me. Which is what it is about. In that logic…staying and being miserable is not what it is about. You need peace and happiness. Stay and have that your way. The church will roll forward with or without you, and with or without me. When others notice and want me to engage, that is about them doing their engaging and them trying to serve like they feel they should…but then they go home to their family and ultimately don’t care that much if I am there or not. It is up to me. What they care about is if they are practicing their religion the way they feel they should. I practice mine differently, but it is still doing the same thing. And so, I can’t let their words have too much affect on me, when I understand why they are saying what they are saying. Their pressure for me to do something is about “them”…as Roy say…they want to bring back a lost sheep or influence someone for good. It is a good motivation for them to serve others…but whether others respond to it or not is not going to impact their testimony. They do it for other reasons.

Quote:

Part of me wants to just push it away a bit and just tell my bishop/SP, “look, I just don’t believe anymore. I am not angry and I am not looking to tear anyone’s faith down or have anyone else leave the church – in fact I will still tell others if it is bringing you to God – go for it – I support you. But I have tried my whole life and if I am honest, I don’t feel I have had God tell me this is true. God has told me that he is pleased when I help others and I choose to believe in a loving God.”

I think that is what you tell yourself. You don’t need to tell your bishop anything. Unless you want him to react and talk back with reasons you should lengthen your stride. I think you can predict what bishops will feel obligated to say as a leader…so if you don’t want to hear those things, don’t bring it up with them. You are on your own now to walk with God without bishops to hold your hand. Let yourself follow your heart.

[Anonymous]

See if there are ways you can accomplish some of your responsibilities using technology instead of traditional meetings.

That might seem like a little thing, but I think it is quite big, especially as a first step toward a bit of real disengagement culturally.

[Anonymous]

I could have written this post. The thought of just going 6 months without having to do a calling or even go to church at all just sounds like heaven to me. A couple of Sundays ago I just couldn’t go to church. I ended up going on a hike later that day and just that one day alone helped me so much. The problem was I had to get back on the treadmill the following Wednesday and then again on Sunday so the reprieve didn’t last long. Sometimes I feel that if I could have an extended break then maybe I could get rid of some of this resentment I have for church and I would be able to think clearly again.

I know what you mean about not having the energy to serve in your community because all your time and energy is used in church callings. I had someone ask me once, “So what do you do for your community?….and church stuff doesn’t count!” Ummmm….nothing. It really gave me a new perspective and kind of made me feel guilty. At that time, my calling was taking up to 20 hours a week so I felt like I was serving but I guess not in some people’s eyes.

I asked to be released from my current calling after my bad weekend and I am feeling real guilt about it. Some days I’m not sure I made the right decision. Other days, I want to say no more callings at all for 6 months so I can find some desire to go to church again. My sister once told me that the year she was totally inactive was one of the best years of her life. Maybe I’m a little afraid that I might like disengaging a little too much and I might never want to reengage again.

It sounds like you have given your all for a lot of years. Taking a little break from having a calling and maybe even missing some Sundays once in awhile might give you a little more clarity on what you really want.

You don’t have to tell the bishop you don’t believe anymore just tell him you’re burned out and need a break. Sometimes we just need to recharge and I definitely think you deserve that.

[Anonymous]

kate5 wrote:

It sounds like you have given your all for a lot of years. Taking a little break from having a calling and maybe even missing some Sundays once in awhile might give you a little more clarity on what you really want.

You don’t have to tell the bishop you don’t believe anymore just tell him you’re burned out and need a break. Sometimes we just need to recharge and I definitely think you deserve that.

I agree. I think taking a break would do me a lot of good too. I did ask to be released from a time-consuming calling last year because I was overwhelmed and dealing with a lot of stuff at home. This really relieved a lot of stress. Taking a break from attending every Sunday may help as well.

[Anonymous]

I would say most people at some point in their lives do have a period they take a break. I think there are some threads in the archives about taking a sabbatical.

[Anonymous]

Lookinghard said:

Quote:

I think part of me resents the time commitment demanded by the church (I had 90 minutes of meetings before the 3 hour block on Sunday and another hour right afterward – and then an hour or so each night so far this week. It is not that I just want to sit and watch the Simpson’s. I am frustrated that I want to go do some community service that isn’t either “missionary oriented” or focused on serving members. I have almost always had a time consuming calling(s) my entire life. Also have a job that requires lots of hours (with little “breaks” where I can spend a few minutes on this and other items during the day. Even outside of church I am a bit burned out and worn out.

I realize that this is classic “you need to set boundaries”, but I am having a hard time figuring out how to gently “back out” of my callings being as “IN” as I am.

Part of me wants to just push it away a bit and just tell my bishop/SP, “look, I just don’t believe anymore. I am not angry and I am not looking to tear anyone’s faith down or have anyone else leave the church – in fact I will still tell others if it is bringing you to God – go for it – I support you. But I have tried my whole life and if I am honest, I don’t feel I have had God tell me this is true. God has told me that he is pleased when I help others and I choose to believe in a loving God.” That for sure is going to get my recommend yanked (I don’t care for that to happen, but I think I am where I am OK with it). I do realize that makes it much harder to come back in any way in the future.

I believe there is more respect today for members that need to set “boundaries” than ever before. Church is not a career.

The following is from LDSliving: http://www.ldsliving.com/The-Power-of-Saying-No-Even-Within-the-Church/s/81599

The one thing I wouldn’t do is:

Quote:

Part of me wants to just push it away a bit and just tell my bishop/SP, “look, I just don’t believe anymore.

I wouldn’t do anything I couldn’t take back if I chose to do that. I would keep my options open.

I would find a friend in the Church & discuss it with them. Someone who can keep your confidence.

[Anonymous]

Minyan Man… Thank you for linking that article! I desperately needed that today.

[Anonymous]

Heber13 wrote:

I would say it is disengaging from trying to please bishops/leaders/ward members, and strengthening engagement to God and gospel principles. It is no longer obeying out of fear or duty or obligation.

I am already there. My bishop is a bit irritated at me not doing one aspect of my calling that to me isn’t a core issue of serving God or others and I am fine that he wants me to move faster on it, but I have more pressing things.

Heber13 wrote:

Quote:

Part of me wants to just push it away a bit and just tell my bishop/SP, “look, I just don’t believe anymore. I am not angry and I am not looking to tear anyone’s faith down or have anyone else leave the church – in fact I will still tell others if it is bringing you to God – go for it – I support you. But I have tried my whole life and if I am honest, I don’t feel I have had God tell me this is true. God has told me that he is pleased when I help others and I choose to believe in a loving God.”

I think that is what you tell yourself. You don’t need to tell your bishop anything. Unless you want him to react and talk back with reasons you should lengthen your stride. I think you can predict what bishops will feel obligated to say as a leader…so if you don’t want to hear those things, don’t bring it up with them. You are on your own now to walk with God without bishops to hold your hand. Let yourself follow your heart.

I think that is where I am at. There are some responsibilities that I will not let falter without warning. I don’t want an entire ward activity be a flop because I didn’t do any of the needed planning. I am a responsible person and I feel that is part of my integrity. I just want to move on to put my work in some other areas. What I am trying to think through is if I go ask for a release, what is the response going to be? I have a feeling that since I have been so gung-ho that I might get a release, but then after just a few weeks I will get called for something else.

I really appreciate the comments. I have reached out to a few of you about how do you stay so “IN” while having what a TBM would say is no belief. The answers were interesting and I appreciated it. I think after thinking some more on that and the topic of this thread, I think what I am really asking for is not the “how”, but a bit more of “why?” As in I think what I am really struggling with is even wanting to engage all that much. This thread I think I was wondering if I just backed way off for a bit if I could then reach a place of being somewhat engaged. And I am not rushing into anything.

Thanks for all the comments. They are helping me think through this a bit more.

[Anonymous]

My disengagement took the form of attending on Sundays but opting out of callings. In my case I let the local leaders know that I wanted to be released and I also told them that I would let them know when I was ready to accept callings again.

It sounds like you could cite your job as a reason for wanting to take a break for a while. That way you don’t have to tell them any details you don’t want to tell them.

Experiences are as varied as there are people but when I disengaged after a while I found myself wanting to reengage. My beliefs already made me feel “alone” in the ward and I found that not being engaged with people made me feel even more isolated. That’s a potential outcome to consider.

I also hold the opinion that service is the way you learn to love people (and a way to feel loved). Granted much of what we are asked to do in church can feel self serving but it’s still a place to find people that need love in their lives. There are also a plethora of opportunities to serve outside the church, the church is just another place to be of service. I’ll also grant you that in church we don’t really get to be autonomous in the way we serve like we can in the outside world. I remember approaching a leader about visiting someone that they mentioned that needed help. Believe it or not I got shot down because it was considered someone else’s responsibility and how I should be focused on the people I home teach. 😯 I’m sure they weren’t putting much thought into what they were saying but my takeaway… I don’t need this guy’s permission.

LookingHard wrote:

I think after thinking some more on that and the topic of this thread, I think what I am really asking for is not the “how”, but a bit more of “why?”

That “why” is going to be different for everyone. My why, Ray’s why, Heber13’s why, etc. probably isn’t going to be LookingHard’s why. Now that I’ve shot down the value of my why… for now I’ve settled on the answer to my why as being another one of those unanswerable questions in my life. Who or what is god? Is there an afterlife, if so what is it like? Why attend church? Right now the answer to all those questions sort of bleed together for me.

I hesitate to advise you to go ahead and disengage. It’s your choice. That said, for me disengaging (at some level) lent some perspective. It was similar to fasting. There are all sorts of lessons that we can learn from fasting. If you fast long enough you quickly learn what you can and can’t live without. When faced with hunger suddenly other problems in your life are put into perspective. Taking a break from church for a while can be a type of fast. It may show you things that are truly important in your church activity and or worship. Everyone is probably going to have their own unique pangs that come, pay attention to yours.

Again, I’m not saying “go inactive.” Many people can and have learned what they needed to learn while remaining 100% active. I’m just trying to convey some of the feelings I went through as a result of conscientiously deciding to be less engaged for a while.

It’s your journey. Good luck. Be sure to send me a postcard.

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