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The next time someone says that anything about LGBT issues is a test of faith (e.g. backing the Q15 on the November policy, believing the current doctrine, wrestling with the idea that God would make someone transgender), I have a reply ready. “What if it’s a test of love instead?”
Reuben wrote:
The next time someone says that anything about LGBT issues is a test of faith (e.g. backing the Q15 on the November policy, believing the current doctrine, wrestling with the idea that God would make someone transgender), I have a reply ready.“What if it’s a test of love instead?”
BINGO!That’s how I feel about it. Bitter fruit still needs to be pruned, but, in the meantime, I can love – everyone on both sides of the divide. (Admission: It is a lot harder to love some on the hyper-orthodox side when it comes to this issue.)
It might very well be a test of faith. Right now, I perceive it as a defect in line with many other physical and mental defects we may be born with. As a result of the fall. We teach a lot of the fall in the church but tend not to talk so much about our mental capacities being subject to the fall as well. Imh fallen opinion, of course.
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I agree Ray. It’s sometimes much more difficult for me to show love and kindness to the ultra-orthodox than to the kid with pink hair, multiple piercings and tattoos. It’s something I am working on. joheri74 wrote:
It might very well be a test of faith. Right now, I perceive it as a defect in line with many other physical and mental defects we may be born with. As a result of the fall. We teach a lot of the fall in the church but tend not to talk so much about our mental capacities being subject to the fall as well.Imh fallen opinion, of course.
Are you insinuating that being gay is a mental illness? Because I don’t agree with that at all. Will gay people be “fixed” in the next life?
joheri74, I generally stay away from defining someone as defective, especially when dealing with something like sexual attraction / orientation. Defects are fixable – at least in theory. Sexual orientation isn’t fixable. In some people, it is fluid – but in cases of true homosexuality, it is neither fluid nor changeable. [Admin Note]: Let’s not let this thread become about biology. Let’s keep it focused on the intent of the post.
Reuben – I am with you on this. I posted in the Return and Report on Sunday thread about this weeks HC speakers. One of them was former Bishop of mine. In prior years I would call him a strident TBM. Yet as Bishop I watched him mellow. Then grow. Then become this giant of chill, love, affection. In his address about loving as Christ loved, he specifically encouraged our ward to love those on the margins. Those who don’t look like us or behave like us. With a solid conviction he said, “We are all children of the same God.”
He named no group or even suggested any – He just opened the door wide to everyone.
I really wanted to rush up and hug him – But it just didn’t seem right at the time. I did thank him profusely. When I catch him at another time I will give him that hug.
The Law of the Good Samaritan should trump any relationship.
Test of who’s faith? Maybe it is not the test we think it is…church members could be missing it entirely. Heber13 wrote:
Test of who’s faith? Maybe it is not the test we think it is…church members could be missing it entirely.
I think it could very much be related to the Abraham actually failed the test argument.
I completely agree that it is a test of love. My orthodox sister almost didn’t come to my other sister’s wedding, because my sister happens to be a lesbian. I finally told my orthodox sister this… “maybe the church is putting an emphasis on homosexuality and God really doesn’t care. Maybe all God cares about is that our sister is a good person (because she truly is one of the best people I know).”
My whole family was shocked and SO happy when my orthodox sister came to the wedding. It was simply a test of LOVE for her. Does she love her sister? Yes. Then go to the wedding!
Do we love our fellow men? Yes. Then be KIND. Be Loving. It’s definitely a test of LOVE.
Molly – I adore your avatar. joheri74 wrote:
It might very well be a test of faith. Right now, I perceive it as a defect in line with many other physical and mental defects we may be born with. As a result of the fall. We teach a lot of the fall in the church but tend not to talk so much about our mental capacities being subject to the fall as well.Imh fallen opinion, of course.
I know it’s a touchy subject for just about everyone, and I know it’s a big beef many of you have with the Church. But I’d have to agree with Joheri on this. All the same, it is something that should be approached with as much love, compassion, and kindness as possible.
As to the original topic, I look it to mean, “Is this a test of their faith (being homosexual), or a test of our capacity to love?”. At least that’s how I interpret it. And I think it’s vital to our growth to acknowledge on our own shortcomings (such as our capacity to love), rather than dwelling on those we percieve in others.
I think the real question should be “Is it a test of our faith, belonging to a chuch which condemns homosexual practice? Or a test our of love, for those who disagree with our beliefs on homosexuality?”
dande48 wrote:
joheri74 wrote: ↑19 Jul 2017, 07:35It might very well be a test of faith. Right now, I perceive it as a defect in line with many other physical and mental defects we may be born with. As a result of the fall. We teach a lot of the fall in the church but tend not to talk so much about our mental capacities being subject to the fall as well.
Imh fallen opinion, of course.
I know it’s a touchy subject for just about everyone, and I know it’s a big beef many of you have with the Church. But I’d have to agree with Joheri on this. All the same, it is something that should be approached with as much love, compassion, and kindness as possible.
I assume that there are certain aspects of homosexuality that could be labeled as a deviation or defect. Of course, when you paint with that broad of a brush ALL mankind is defective for all of us have imperfect minds and bodies. How many of my own “defects and deviations” could be “fixed” until I do not even recognize myself anymore? What if part of being “fixed” meant that I was no longer attracted to my spouse that I have built a home and a life with? OTOH, each of is also perfectly imperfect in our uniqueness and potential.
What is really challenging is when heterosexual people feel superior to homosexual people. Saying that homosexuality is a defect seems to play into that.
Pres. Uchtdorf said, “Don’t judge me because I sin differenty than you do.” The corollary is, “Don’t judge someone else because s/he sins differently than you do.”
“For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God.”
Yes, every homosexual person is defective – but so is every heterosexual person. The problem lies in labeling one particular group of people that way and not doing so for other groups – in the division and superiority that inevitably creates, as well as the constant attempts to fix others’ defects in totally ineffective ways. Homosexual people have been damaged terribly, even killed, in our attempts to fix them. That alone should be enough to let go of the idea that they are uniquely defective and in need of fixing by others.
Yes, I see this as a test of our love – with love as a verb, not a noun. Generally speaking, thus far, we have failed that test miserably to this point.
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