- This topic is empty.
-
Posts
-
Was watching Comedians in Cars Getting Coffee this morning on Netflix. It was the episode where Jerry Seinfeld spends the morning with Ricky Gervais. The topic of religion came up in a roundabout way and Ricky started telling Jerry that he doesn’t ever pray. He said that it makes him feel arrogant. His reasoning was this, “Who am I to believe that I am so important to God that he will help me find my car keys if I just pray for help when he left millions of praying Jews to die in gas chambers during the holocaust?” (not a direct quote.) I’ve had similar thoughts on prayer but never heard it put quite in that way. Curious what thoughts and reactions you all might have…
mfree6464 wrote:
Was watching Comedians in Cars Getting Coffee this morning on Netflix. It was the episode where Jerry Seinfeld spends the morning with Ricky Gervais. The topic of religion came up in a roundabout way and Ricky started telling Jerry that he doesn’t ever pray. He said that it makes him feel arrogant. His reasoning was this, “Who am I to believe that I am so important to God that he will help me find my car keys if I just pray for help when he left millions of praying Jews to die in gas chambers during the holocaust?” (not a direct quote.)I’ve had similar thoughts on prayer but never heard it put quite in that way. Curious what thoughts and reactions you all might have…
I totally disagree with that sentiment. Back when I was in “Mutual” (during the 1960s), one of my teachers told us that nothing is too trivial for you to pray about. She said, “If it’s important to you, it’s important to God.” We can’t possibly know why God chooses to answer some prayers and not answer others, but to me, prayer is how I keep in touch with him. I think He wants us to acknowledge His hand in all things. When we ask for something (even that He’ll help us find our car keys), that’s telling Him that we know He’s in a position to be able to help us. There have been countless times when I’ve wondered why He didn’t come through for me, but I’ve come to realize that it’s not because He sees me as unimportant.
I don’t think prayer is inherently arrogant, but it can be depending on what you pray for. For example, if you expect God to give you more blessings than someone else because you are more righteous than they are. Or if you pray about how glad you are to be better than others (like the Pharisee in Jesus’ parable). I don’t think there’s anything wrong with having faith that God will answer your prayers. But if you think God answers your prayers becauseyou are so worthy, or if you think other people’s prayers go unanswered because they were less worthy than you, then I think that’s the point where it becomes arrogant. It is a very interesting question though, why God answers even seemingly trivial prayers for some people, but does not address some much more serious needs for others. I really have no clue.
Praying? No Seeing God as a vending machine (insert action, get blessing)? Probably.
Having said that, many people who pray regularly and fervently are not arrogant. Many, however, are.
My prayers changed as my faith changed. I ceased or mostly ceased asking for things. I still commune with him on a daily, hourly, minutely basis. I now converse with him, like I would a friend. I also try to increase my expressions of gratitude. My life is so abundant in things, experiences, blessings, opportunities – I can fill a whole prayer experience with just “thank you’s”- I love prayer. Lost keys vs. the Holocaust – that’s above my pay grade.
Like Mom, my prayer changed drastically post faith crisis/transition. I also don’t ask for things, but I do acknowledge things that I feel fortunate for (like not hitting a deer for over 2 years on my long daily commute). I do not believe in the God of the Lost Car Keys (the first episode of TBS’s Miracle Workers has a very funny sequence on that subject – probably more funny because of my status on prayer). I actually don’t believe most prayers are answered and maybe aren’t even heard, but may be more like baptism and are just expressions of personal worship. But that’s just me based on my own experiences. Could it be arrogant to pray? I am positive it is arrogant on the part of some people, but who I am to judge? It is interesting how your prayers change after going through a FC. My current belief in prayer is similar to the ending in the movie Oh God. (I’ve talked about this before.) John Denver says to George Burns (God) “Aren’t there times when we
can just talk”. And God say: “You talk I’ll listen.”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6x0i-FfeA44 There are (3) parables where Jesus talks about praying:
Luke 11:5-10
Luke 18:1-8
Luke 18:9-14
He doesn’t say necessarily how or where to pray, just do it.
So, sometimes I just meditate or focus my thoughts on a principle of the gospel & keep my mind open (as much as I can) to whatever
comes. Is this arrangance? I don’t know. I don’t necessarily expect an answer in return. A feeling of peace is enough.
My prayers have also changed since my FC. To be honest, sometimes I pray in an unorthodox way and sometimes my prayers are by the book. I think the important part of prayer is an attempt to ping the divine mystery. Sometimes there is a connection and sometimes it’s routine and solely out of habit and obligation. This was a great podcast https://theliturgists.com/podcast/2019/7/19/prayer . Sometimes a quiet moment basking in the connection of the universe can be sacred and what I would now consider prayer. I was recently in the Teton mountains, early in the morning and basked in the sunrise, saw some elk and a moose and felt connected to God and nature. That was a sacred, spiritual experience and a prayer because it was like a divine conversation, rather than shooting off a one word text.mfree6464 wrote:
Was watching Comedians in Cars Getting Coffee this morning on Netflix. It was the episode where Jerry Seinfeld spends the morning with Ricky Gervais. The topic of religion came up in a roundabout way and Ricky started telling Jerry that he doesn’t ever pray. He said that it makes him feel arrogant. His reasoning was this, “Who am I to believe that I am so important to God that he will help me find my car keys if I just pray for help when he left millions of praying Jews to die in gas chambers during the holocaust?” (not a direct quote.)I’ve had similar thoughts on prayer but never heard it put quite in that way. Curious what thoughts and reactions you all might have…
I’ve always found Gervais’ attitude towards religion arrogant. He has said some ugly and bigoted things about various religions. I think the real.reason he doesn’t pray is because of what he thinks might happen if he does it sincerely.
Katzpur wrote:
I think He wants us to acknowledge His hand in all things.
I like this thought as well. There is something that is healthy for us to think beyond our self, and into a universal collective or an almighty God that can help us broaden our thinking and our situation in life. Mystical things are helpful to drag us out of the daily thoughts we have when focused just on ourselves. Acknowledging the divine in all things is very healthy for us, I think.Arrakeen wrote:
it can be depending on what you pray for.
I agree with this too, and think it can be part of a journey to figure this out.I am not sure there is any being out there that hears my prayers, but I have found it helpful for me to pray to some being out there, and not for car keys, but for ways to love and serve others or to find the words to give my children when they need advice. I don’t know how it happens, but I find myself thinking differently when I do pray in this way. I find I am better off for it. Probably because, as I said, it gets me out of my head, and into my heart and spirit to believe in something greater than myself for connecting with others.
It isn’t always arrogant. It can be very much the opposite.
I think people should just try and experiment with prayer, and find what works for them or what doesn’t. There are lots of ways to do it.
I don’t think it is arrogant to pray and ask for things you need. It may however be arrogant to believe you will get an answer. I don’t think it’s arrogant to pray. If done in the right attitude, it’s an indicator you believe there is a higher power capable of doing things of which you are not capable. It’s a sign of humility. My belief now is that God isn’t present when I pray though. So much of what I pray about falls on deaf ears. If something is a chronic problem in my life, it never seems to go away if deep enough. I have some problems that will stay with me until I die I believe. My son, well, I have little faith his diabetes will ever be cured. I have chronic problems with my thinking that I have tried so hard to change (such as forgiving people) and I can’t seem to change them — not after years of reading, practicing, reflecting, trying change those basic dispositions. The only thing that cures them is time, and only certain offences. After years of them making me miserable and never being able to forgive or change these weaknesses, when I sincerely want to, God doesn’t seem to want to intervene and help me. I don’t really believe he even cares about me and my problems anymore. They are mine to live with, and try to be successful in spite of them.
I think it’s humble to pray. I question if we should pray about every little thing. Even though God says “Your ways are not my ways, and your thoughts not my thoughts”. But if I was God, I would often be thinking — SD, you can handle that yourself, so I’m not going to respond to that one. “
But don’t use that one against me given my chronic problems — I feel I have sincerely tried everything in my power to fix those problems as best I could, and they now see like things to accept rather than hope they will change.
Sigh, God is complicated, his rules, mysterious, and what he really thinks, unknown to me.
It can be arrogant. Remember the prayer on the Rameumptum? Jesus compares and contrasts different approaches to prayer in Luke 18:
Quote:…11The Pharisee stood by himself and prayed, ‘God, I thank You that I am not like the other men—swindlers, evildoers, adulterers—or even like this tax collector. 12I fast twice a week and pay tithes of all that I receive.’ 13But the tax collector stood at a distance, unwilling even to lift up his eyes to heaven. Instead, he beat his breast and said, ‘God, have mercy on me, a sinner!’…
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.