Is it Good to be Ungrateful?

[Anonymous]

The local radio station in the small town where we live offers an inspirational quote each morning between songs. Today’s quote went something like this: The wise man is not full of sorrow for that which he lacks but rejoices in that which he has.

On the surface this quote spoke to me. I have been candid on this board about the pain I have felt concerning things I lack in my life and it was a nice prod for me to make more of an effort to find gratitude in what I do have. But, I like to look at things from all angles and this quote got me to thinking: what would happen if I truly managed to find a way to become completely and totally grateful for all I currently have and have zero sorrow/envy for things I don’t have?

I believe accomplishing something like that would be very counterproductive. If someone were completely grateful and content with their situation they would have no motive to progress. No desire to seek out an education (formal or informal.) No desire to seek out a promotion at work. No desire to be a better parent. No desire to be a better church member or member of their community, etc, etc.

So I was wondering what you all might think of this? Is it good to have a little sorrow, a little envy so we are properly motivated to improve ourselves?

[Anonymous]

I think is an inspirational quote that has a very good message – for those who need it. It doesn’t work for other people – like those in terrible situations who yearn for better lives. In that sense, it represents a view from a position of relative luxury. In the end, it is a black-and-white statement being applied in a gray world.

For me, the ideal is both/and. I want to be happy and satisfied with my life, but I also want to make my life better. That sounds like a contradiction to some people; I see it as no more than an aspect of living in a dichotomous world full of fascinating paradoxes. “There must needs be opposition in all things” kind of destroys black-and-white reliance for me.

[Anonymous]

As I’ve grown older I’ve realized my parents made some bad choices in raising me that have affected my adult mental health. Should I be ungrateful to them? They did the wrong things for the right reasons IMHO.

What about God? I feel it hard to be grateful for my afflictions. I try to be, but it’s not an easy one.

[Anonymous]

Depends what the end-goal is, and how you define “good”. But I think there are other ways to motivate yourself to “do good” and excel without sorrow or envy. I believe you can still strive for something, while still being fine if you don’t find it. I think grateful people are happier than ungrateful people.

Buddhism is in many ways the epitome of gratitude. They teach that desire/craving is the root of all our suffering, and devote their lives to being removed from it. The Dalai Lama and his fellow monks own absolutely nothing. Even their clothes, traditionally, were made from fabric no one else wanted (now it is donated). The aspire to nothing. Some might even say, they’ve accomplished nothing. And yet, I feel they have done so much good.

On the flip side, highly accomplished “successful” people seem pretty miserable. Elon Musk particularly comes to mind. He’s done some amazing things, and I greatly admire him as a visionary genius who is taking humanity to new heights. But his personal life is pretty messed up.

So I guess what it all boils down to is, what do you want? I think the happiest “successful people” are those who can, once accomplished, can say “this is good enough”, and take a step down. If you are capable of becoming completely grateful, once you reach a certain point, I think you will be happy. But then, if your happiness depends on your outward success, I think most will be disappointed.

[Anonymous]

dande48 wrote:

On the flip side, highly accomplished “successful” people seem pretty miserable. Elon Musk particularly comes to mind. He’s done some amazing things, and I greatly admire him as a visionary genius who is taking humanity to new heights. But his personal life is pretty messed up.

Elon Musk is not how he is portrayed. Successful businessmen are often ruthless and driven, so not the nicest of people. He is also heavily subsidized by the US government. He has also cut himself off from his South African roots.

(He also made some unforgivable comments accusing the man who rescued the Thai cave children last year of being a pedophile but that is another matter.)

Steve Jobs was not a nice man either. And Bill Gates has a dark side (although he has been responsible for some positive things too.)

People talented in the arts are often horrible people too. I greatly admire Freddie Mercury but would never wish to meet him.

[Anonymous]

I think this quote works well for the person who has life in a largely positive state of affairs, but who may have tendencies to complain. When everything breaks loose (for example, in a perpetual state of pain, in jail, suddenly paralyzed or other life changing circumstances) I think it’s kind of hollow advice. When everything comes apart at the seams, at this point, I think finding meaning in suffering like Victor Frankl prescribed, seems more useful.

That is much of the problem with life and models and theories — they tend to apply in a certain range of circumstances, yet people try to make them apply everywhere, and they normally don’t!

[Anonymous]

mfree6464 wrote:

what would happen if I truly managed to find a way to become completely and totally grateful for all I currently have and have zero sorrow/envy for things I don’t have?

I believe accomplishing something like that would be very counterproductive. If someone were completely grateful and content with their situation they would have no motive to progress. No desire to seek out an education (formal or informal.) No desire to seek out a promotion at work. No desire to be a better parent. No desire to be a better church member or member of their community, etc, etc.

That’s a toughie. I see some contradiction in that. If you worried about a lack of motive to progress then you haven’t yet reached a stage where you have zero envy for things you don’t have, and if you have reached a state where you have zero envy for things you don’t have, why would it matter to you if you lacked motive to progress?

I tend to get tripped up on things like, “What is progress?” and, “Can people really change their nature?” I’d also question why it isn’t okay to not seek out a promotion at work, why I need to be a better church member, etc. Where are those goals coming from, an inner desire to do those types of things or outward forces making me feel like I need to be doing those things?

[Anonymous]

There is that old line we say to children about “don’t you know people are starving in [insert country]”.

I don’t know if that mentality helps. Yes, there are people out there suffering far more than any of us, but does that alleviate our suffering?

When our relationships break up, it can be immensely painful for example, but saying that “at least you don’t live in a war zone” doesn’t help. A warzone may be far worse, but a break up can still lead to suicide.

If you have a really bad stomach upset, someone telling you “at least it’s not cancer” doesn’t make it go away.

Losing your home because you couldn’t pay for it, isn’t made any better by someone telling you it could have been swallowed up by a hole in the earth or you could have been burned alive in it.

So yes, some people may be suffering far worse than we are, but that doesn’t mean our lesser suffering is pleasant. Perspective sometimes helps but not all the time.

I’m grateful I have a home. I’m grateful I am not a drug addict. I’m grateful I don’t have an abusive spouse. I’m grateful that I have some good friends. None of this makes me grateful for the failure of my career, or love life or being assaulted as a child. I know some of that is down to my choice, but a lot of it isn’t.

[Anonymous]

I agree with Curt that for most people both gratitude and motivation to improve are important.

DW feels guilty almost constantly for not measuring up. She sees me as self-justifying my actions. She thinks that her approach is better because she is closer to changing her actions. I do not see her changing her actions. I see her feeling guilty which can lead to unhappiness and depression which can lead to lower emotional capacity to take care of herself and others.

nibbler wrote:

“Can people really change their nature?” I’d also question why it isn’t okay to not seek out a promotion at work, why I need to be a better church member, etc. Where are those goals coming from, an inner desire to do those types of things or outward forces making me feel like I need to be doing those things?

To some extent, I believe that DW and I are both following and justifying our natures. Like the man riding an emotional elephant, the elephant can go where it wants to go and the man must make rationalizations for it after the fact. IOW, I would have a very difficult time to will myself to feel more guilty and DW cannot simply will hereself to feel self contented. We do our best to love and support each other in our different capacities.

On the whole, DW and I agree that a perspective of gratitude towards those things that we have in life is often a better way to live (at least for those that have their basic needs met). Ultimately, each of us will spend 80 ish years in this life and then be gone from this mortal journey. How do we want to spend those years?

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