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I must say I have come back to the church after being out a year but I still and probably always will drink coffee. Just can’t help it , I like going to the temple and want to go with my wife so if I go am I a terrible person ? I am looking at we all have things we are working on and if everyone had to be perfect to attend the temple no one would ever go . Can I be working on the wow or be doing my best and still go ? What say all of you ?
It comes down to something different than is coffee horrible. It’s all about the Temple Recommend Question and you. The question is direct. The answer is yours. I don’t know how public you are with your coffee. Does your wife know? Would other members see you? I am not asking you to change on their behalf, but loving her and wanting to share something with her – you may want to live that portion as it applies to her and the other LDS people in her world.
Yes we are all imperfect. I think it would be great if we let members of any standing have a temple recommend. Everything is a work in progress. But we don’t. Tithing can keep you out, wearing the authorized underwear can keep you out, so can WoW.
I can totally make a case that coffee isn’t in the 89th section by name. That people drink loads of caffeinated and unhealthy beverages and still get access. But others minds might not buy mine.
You may like coffee, but what is your objective, your wife – or you.
I second what Mom said. In one way the answer to your question is if drinking coffee horrible, then most people on the planet are horrible. I don’t buy that line of reasoning. I would simply say, “why are you asking us?” I think it is really a question of you to ask of yourself.
When I step back and take a broad perspective I recognize that the Word of Wisdom is really one of those gems that can make staying LDS worth it, even if an individual doesn’t believe any of the major gospel tenets. I have watched close family members’ lives, health, careers, and families be completely devastated by choosing not to follow it. Granted, in these cases it was alcohol and harder drugs that did the damage, not coffee. But coffee is a stimulant with addictive properties, and although it does possess some health benefits, these are arguably offset by the fact that people almost always add sugar, artificial sweeteners, and other additives to it, and/or by the fact that people often drink it excessively. It’s also an unnecessary drain on time and money; a lot of folks would cringe if you showed them the total they spend in dollars and minutes per month or per year, on their caffiene habit. Also, the surrounding culture, in almost every part of the world, is one where WoW-prohibited substances are consumed regularly. Some people are unaffected by their consumption, but some are genetically or otherwise susceptible to developing addiction to the various substances, which in turn limits their agency and their ability to reach their full potential. So even if you are one of those who doesn’t become addicted or experiences no negative consequences from drinking coffee, by abstaining from that and the other prohibited substances, you help to create and maintain a safe place, a haven and a sanctuary, for those who are susceptible to addiction, and for those trying to overcome it.
We can also look at abstinence from fairly benign substances like coffee as another way we set ourselves apart from the surrounding culture, as a reminder to ourselves of what our beliefs represent and what kind of people we are supposed to be.
And then, like mom3 said, of course there’s the issue of the question in the TR interview… The Priesthood holder asking the question assumes that implicit in that is the question, “Do you abstain from coffee?” Are we justified in purposefully deceiving someone in order to have the TR if our interpretation of the law differs from the official one? I don’t know the answer to that, but I currently don’t carry a TR because I can’t wear my garments due to sensory processing issues, and even though I don’t feel that this should make me unworthy of the temple, I still can’t in good conscience answer yes to the garment question.
As a kid I thought coffee was a sin. I remember going to a friend’s church activity and seeing a coffee machine. From my reaction you might have thought that I saw people dancing with snakes (I didn’t). There are sins and then there are community standards. I believe coffee falls firmly into the later but the consequences can still be serious. Imagine you had a homeowners association that restricted the color you could paint your house. Painting your house pink is not a sin… but the homeowners association is going to react anyway. Coffee is similar.
I personally do not have a TR. I have told my wife that I may drink coffee if I were in a far away place where I would not see anyone that could know me and know that I am LDS. Otherwise, out of respect for my family’s beliefs and that of our faith community, I will abstain.
P.S. I do not pretend that my decision to abstain makes me any stronger or more faithful than you. Coffee is just not my thing so it is an easy compromise to make. In life, communities, families, and marriages we must all determine the compromises/trade offs that work best for us.
Depends on the “Leadership Roulette”. Some bishops will allow a person to have a temple recommend, even if they are still “working on it” (provided they are trying). Some will not. To put the odds in your favor, I’d recommend going out of your way to show repentant humility, share with the Bishop your struggles, tell him of your desire to change, and *maybe* set up a coffee-holic recovery plan (so he knows you are trying).
The most addictive part of coffee is caffeine (which is not against the WoW), so if you are interested in breaking the habit, there are many alternative sources you can use to “nicotine-patch” yourself off of it. Plus, there is
Coffee FlavoringI don’t think drinking coffee makes you a terrible person. But IMHO, honesty is one of the highest of virtues. If you fib to your bishop, I wouldn’t hold it against you. I completely get the temptation. But I’d rather hold onto my integrity and not go to the temple, than give it up for a recommend.
Rebel wrote:
Can I be working on the wow or be doing my best and still go ? What say all of you ?
Like others have said, the question is a straightforward yes or no. However, what the WoW actually encompasses is a matter of some debate. If you can claim with a clear conscience that drinking coffee is not against the WoW then by all means get a temple recommend. You don’t have to ask the bishop if coffee is ok, you decide. D&C 89 says hot drinks which we obviously don’t take literally because LDS drink a whole variety of hot drinks. Some consider decaf as coffee some don’t. My own grandparents drank decaf and held temple recommends without and ounce of guilt and they just didn’t tell anyone. I used to drink green tea and held a temple recommend because it was supposed to have health benefits. I ultimately gave up because it’s just easier to drink water.
Once an investigator asked me and the two missionaries I accompanied: “so I can drink a boiling mountain dew but not an iced coffee?” With a straight face they said yes that’s what we’re saying. This cemented in my mind that sometimes silly rules don’t have to be obeyed.
I told my stake president that during temple recommend interviews I conducted that I wasn’t preventing people from entering the temple if they ask about coffee or tea and he didn’t seem to care much. As Dande48 said it can be leadership roulette. My advice is do what you think is right.
The insomnia, headaches, heart arrhythmia, anxiety and gut problems it caused me were certainly horrible, and I don’t miss them. People drink coffee to perk them up, but like most uppers it slams you right down later on.
From your own words only, I would say you aren’t a terrible person. Rather, you have an addiction. That is an issue you probably should address directly, along with what everyone else has shared.
https://ssir.org/articles/entry/the_problem_with_fair_trade_coffee Coffee has one of the most unfair trade relations and poisons the soil it grows on.
SamBee wrote:
The insomnia, headaches, heart arrhythmia, anxiety and gut problems it caused me were certainly horrible, and I don’t miss them.People drink coffee to perk them up, but like most uppers it slams you right down later on.
https://ssir.org/articles/entry/the_pro … ade_coffeeCoffee has one of the most unfair trade relations and poisons the soil it grows on.
Yes, Sam, but neither of these things make Rebel a horrible person. I don’t like coffee (but I love the smell of it) and my DD suffers some of the symptoms you mention when she drinks coffee. I have been known to drink ice tea (by definition not “hot”). I personally don’t believe the WoW to be a commandment (one of the first things it says) and I personally don’t think it should be a TR question. None of that makes me a horrible person. I think a major point that many members miss is how many things, commandment or not, really boil down to personal choice and individual comfort level with that choice. I’m comfortable drinking the occasional ice tea and if I liked coffee, the occasional cup. I’m also comfortable not tithing on gross and counting other worthy causes as part of tithing. Other are not comfortable drinking a Coke (I prefer Pepsi) and believe tithing is only correct if it’s on gross. Because none of us are perfect, nor by the way do I believe any of us are “more perfect” than anyone else, none of us are horrible and all of us are to some extent hypocrites. (Yes, I do hold a TR.)
You could smoke 2 packs a day, drink 10 cups of coffee a day, have a beer sip-hat, have wine with every meal, light up a joint on the weekends, and drink tea with all your English friends, and none of that would make you a bad person. It’s true there are good health reasons to avoid these things, and that’s what the WoW is for. The church should have never made avoiding any of those things a requirement for a TR because it conflates good advice with what it means to be a good person. So no. It’s not horrible to drink coffee.
dande48 wrote:
I just saw a string of articles this morning, on howlegislation is in process to list coffee as a Carcinogen in California
They might as well list oxygen as a carcinogen… Oh wait, it actually is. Our bodies are just awesome and fight off most of the random cancer cells that form in our bodies on a daily basis. Most of the time, there aren’t enough of them at any given time for there to be a problem. Cancer as a disease is the state when the immune system can no longer keep up with the division of cancer cells. (Or at least that’s how I understand it. I’m no expert)Beefster wrote:
light up a joint on the weekends,
I once heard a man give a talk about hearing the message of Christ and feeling inspired to follow him. The problem is that he was a drug addict and really had no background in what living as a Christian was supposed to mean.
He made a decision to become a follower of Christ by not doing any drugs on the Sabbath. As he took that tiny step he felt the love of God. His offering, limited as it was, was accepted and he was loved. Over time he felt moved upon and encouraged to take additional steps in his walk with Christ – eventually changing his life in substantial ways for the better.
It was a powerful talk.
