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Do you think the church is better or worse than it was 10 years ago? Can you be more specific? I think some things are better and some while not worse aren’t necessarily better either. I think many aspects of culture fall into the latter, but that also might depend on where I live.
I do like the Nelson changes and think they have led to an overall improvement. I like that almost every talk in this last GC was focused on Jesus Christ. I like that they talk about our personal testimonies and not in the context of “this is what you have to believe.” Of course that’s all on the “big church” level and not all of it has trickled down to the local level. I think some of that is resistance to change and some is not really understanding the change (for example we seem to have quite a few people, including leaders, who don’t understand the difference in home teaching and ministering).
Yes…. I believe that society has experienced incremental progress over time. I believe that this progress has accelerated in the last few hundred years. I believe that the LDS church generally lags behind the broader societal progress by at least a few decades. I believe that this progress is non-linear and can take the form of bursts of progress followed by a period or retrenchment.
The impression I get is that it’s worse. But that is simply because enjoyed it a whole lot more back then. While I appreciate some of the shift in doctrinal focus in recent years toward Jesus Christ and away from Kolob, I also miss church feeling fun. My Mormon identity used to feel like membership in a cool club where we did fun things together. We had all sorts of youth activities with no spiritual purpose, we just did things because we wanted to.
Maybe it’s because I’ve gotten older and don’t have as much of a social life anymore. Maybe it’s because COVID has put a stop to many activities. Or because at that time I lived in the Northeast where church was very different. But I also think there seems to be a shift toward trying to make all activities spiritual in some way. Now it feels like everything is supposed to help you along the “covenant path” and have some spiritual theme. There don’t seem to be as many activities purely for fun.
I think it’s much better: 1. Two Hour Church
2. Deemphasis on Moving
3. Home teaching replaced with ministering
4. No waiting period for a temple marriage if you get married civilly
5. Greater equality for women (although I know many believe we are not anywhere close yet).
6. Greater emphasis on the family/individual and less demanding requirements for individuals.
7. Apparently, less emphasis on hoarding food. We just moved and it was good to get rid of all this food we’d been moving around and storing all these years.
Overall things are moving in a better direction.
2011? I must be getting old as that doesn’t seem all that long ago. But some things are better. I applauded the combining of priesthood quorums into one quorum. The Elder/High Priest distinction simply doesn’t work well anymore. (I guess I got in just under the wire…I’d been made a High Priest right before the Big Change). I think the Church is trying to be a BIT more transparent about things. Though it would have been nice if the leaders had decided to do that on their own rather than kind of, sort of being forced to. I still feel that the leaders of the Church (and most members) have the best of intentions whatever the outcome may be. I know the end doesn’t justify the means but I still feel more at peace thinking about what is good in people rather than what is its opposite. That said, I don’t care much for the “erasure” of the word “Mormon.” It always seems a bit of a tempest in teapot sort of problem. And now we just don’t know what to call ourselves “LDS?” (I think we’re not supposed to use that either) “Latter-day Saints?” (Maybe) “Members of the Church of Christ” (It may be true but the term hasn’t percolated through society in a way that identifies it with out Church” 
It’s better for me, cuz i spend less time in it. I think better in many ways and unchanged in many ways. I am trying to think of a way I think it is worse at this moment. I can’t think of any, but there might be some.
I think some policies and practices have improved. My complaint is the youth programs is a former shadow of what i had 40 yers ago. Gone is the fun activities and replaced with tedious “faith building” programs. No wonder the youth are leaving. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Cadence wrote:
I think some policies and practices have improved. My complaint is the youth programs is a former shadow of what i had 40 yers ago. Gone is the fun activities and replaced with tedious “faith building” programs. No wonder the youth are leaving.Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I tend to agree on the lack of youth programs. 1) We do not pay anyone (youth pastor) to build a quality youth program. 2) Even with our volunteer/conscription model it seems to me that the change as of a few years ago removing the calling of YM president makes it feel like nobody is in charge of activities. In our ward we have several men that are involved with activities but it just doesn’t feel like anyone is in charge or responsible – or maybe said another way, “everyone is responsible, so nobody is.” 3) There doesn’t seem to be any money for youth activities. Or more accurately, it would take a youth leader to spend their own money on youth activities, keep receipts, and then apply for reimbursement – since nobody is in charge (see point #2) that hasn’t really been happening. As my 14 year old put it, “Why can’t our church have froyos?” 4) Since the withdrawal from the Scouting program there is no curriculum so there is no goal/schedule/plan to our activities. We could not have an activity for 6 months or a year and not lose any ground or fall behind because there is no direction to go. 5) We also have this idea that the youth themselves should be “in charge” and planning their own activities.
:thumbdown: This is by far my biggest complaint. In my ward the boys are periodically told that they are responsible for our lack of engaging or fun activities. Then we have a “planning” meeting where everyone throws out ideas but nobody really records them or takes the next step of putting them into practice and/or funding them. We might get an activity or two planned for the next few weeks and then the process repeats itself. My children have expressed that they never want to attend another planning meeting.It’s nobody’s fault. Everyone is a volunteer and overworked. but that doesn’t change the fact that my teenagers do not see much value in the youth programs.
The church does not seem willing to spend money on a decent youth program (even though it’s arguably one of the most important investments they could make). Activities are very limited in budget. In my experience more expensive activities were also not allowed even if members paid for it themselves because it would create inequality with some being unable to participate. But the church has enough money they could fully fund quite a range of fun activities for all of the youth. As a teenager, I participated in two Boy Scout troops. One was sponsored by the church and the other was sponsored by the community. The community-sponsored troop was way more fun. We didn’t worry as much about budget constraints so we did whitewater rafting, skiing, deep-sea fishing, scuba diving, and lots of other cool activities. Meanwhile the church troop was stuck wondering what they could do that didn’t cost any money and wasn’t too far outside ward boundaries.
Arrakeen wrote:
Meanwhile the church troop was stuck wondering what they could do that didn’t cost any money and wasn’t too far outside ward boundaries.
Before joining the LDS church I participated in a scout troop that was sponsored by a different church. Another big difference that limited LDS troops was the rule about no camping on Sundays. In my non-LDS troop a campout would start Friday after school and last until Sunday afternoon, about 48 hours. In LDS troops the campouts would start Friday after school and were often over by lunchtime Saturday, less than 24 hours. If you have less than 24 hours it limits where you can go and what you can do. The one extra night makes a huge difference.
The LDS troops in my area took the no Sundays thing to an extreme. Summer camp started Sunday afternoon or Sunday night. It gave kids a chance to arrive at camp, settle in, and get their bearings before merit badge courses started on Monday morning. LDS troops didn’t camp on Sundays so they would arrive at camp at like 5:00AM Monday morning, rush to settle in, and rush off to courses. All to… not be outdoors on the Sabbath? It never made much sense.
Do you think the church is better or worse than it was 10 years ago? Yes.
Better and worse are subjective and will depend on the individual. Not only has the church changed but the individual changes and the challenges that life presents change.
For me personally, some things about church are better than they were, some things are worse, many things are the same. It’s hard for me to say what percentages of that is down to changes I’ve undergone and what percentage is down to changes in church culture.
Here’s an example of how tangled the question becomes in my mind.
When I was much younger I needed what the church provided. A few of those things were certainty and black and white boundaries for acceptable behavior. The church is still very, very good at providing people with those things. Reflecting back, I needed those things when I was young. I get far less utility out of them now because I have life experience that has shown me counterexamples. Now that I’m older and more experienced, those things have ceased to feed me spiritually. I have changed and the church appears “worse” to me than it once did simply because I’m no longer in the market for their only product.
Do the youth
todayneed the brand of certainty and boundaries that the church provides? Has the church adapted to meet the current youth’s needs as they relate to certainty and boundaries? I could say the same about the other benefit that made the church better for me in days past, the social aspects. Church provided a community when I was younger. Now that I’m older I have less of a need for a community, the old joke about the real miracle Jesus performed was having a dozen close friends when he was in his 30s. I’m married, settled, I simply have less social needs than I did before. Is the church “worse” because it’s failing to meet my social needs or am I “worse” for having less social needs? Both.
Does the church provide the youth
todaywith the sort of social needs that they have. Youth today are different than I was when I was a youth but I have to say that the church today is worse than it was when I was a youth, mainly for reasons already stated. The youth may hate roadshows, the youth may hate any number of activities people generations past enjoyed, but unless the youth of today take nothing at all as better than anything, the church is worse on that front. Social issues are social issues. The church is better today that it was 10 years ago with respect to social issues but the church is still lagging a few generations behind where it needs to be.
I’m not sure I like the terms “better” or “worse. I do know it is different & I don’t always feel comfortable. Our family was totally inactive shortly after our children were baptized.
They didn’t have the chance to participate in any of the youth programs when they were
young. Now that my wife & I are active again, I don’t feel guilty that they didn’t participate
or are not active today. They do participate in other religions as adults & are active there.
The one thing I do miss is the separation of the Melchizedek PH classes. In smaller classes,
you could ask sensitive questions that you wouldn’t do in the combined, bigger classes.
I wonder sometimes if that is by design. The old HP classes were populated by older more
mature men that have experience & probably asked some of the questions themselves.
In the larger classes you have the full spectrum from investigators, new members & old
guys like me. I’ve noticed a lot of us old guys are not participating liked we used to.
When you are expected to give the same canned responses, it can really get boring.
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