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An anti-Mormon friend of mine (who doesn’t know my affiliation, and I really don’t want him to) started going on about how important families were in Catholicism. I thought “where have I heard that before?” Another “aha” moment came to me today, when I was reading comments on Mel Gibson’s latest controversy. He is frequently described as RC or “traditionalist RC” a bit like Mr Green got described as a “Mormon”. Anyway, after said article on Mel G, there was a comment along the lines of “I hope he returns to the one true church”. Now where have I heard that phrase before? I confess (no pun intended) that I did not read through all of the posts for this particular post, but will add my two cents to the original, as I see it. I do not think there is any evidence for the Great Apostasy upon which Mormonism is based. I spent, in an earlier time, a lot of time debating and discussing with Catholic priests of the Jesuit order (I was the personal chef for a community of Jesuits for ten years and had many opportunities to engage with them about matters of religion). It wasn’t their opinions that made me believe this, by any means, but they did help me to understand better what the Catholic church is, and, frankly, it is a far more Christian enterprise than I think the Mormon church is. The Catholic church is of obvious long standing historically speaking, and has had its problems over the centuries (Mormons no less so in an even shorter time span). Those problems have continued into the modern era with the child molestation issues that have emerged. But there will always be, in any religion, people who don’t live up to its values, and always those that will, so we can’t simply castigate the Catholic church.
That said, the idea of the Catholic church is very freeing. The church is the body of the people, not the Vatican. To be sure, the Vatican exerts a certain level of control, but it is really a church of the people (the pope is, after all, merely the bishop of Rome, an equal among all bishops the world over). For instance, the church doesn’t dictate how a parish is created. If enough Catholics live in a certain area they can then ask that a priest be assigned to their parish. They then support that priest through their offerings (tithing). Furthermore, the church only guides certain aspects of a person’s life. It doesn’t demand that one not drink or smoke, as these are viewed as normal human activities (and not bearing on spirituality or salvation), albeit ones that can create problems, but leaves that up to the individual. But this leaves religion to the individual too. The main goal of the church is personal salvation in Christ. It requires good works, to be sure, but all as ways of knowing Christ. Otherwise, it doesn’t demand dictates on one’s life. In other words, it is a true community of people _willfully_ engaging in a community based on Christ.
Since the Catholic church has existed, arguably, from the beginning of Christ’s reign, and continues to profess and offer people a vehicle to salvation in Christ, I don’t see the argument that an Apostasy happened to be very valid. The idea of an Apostasy occurring did not, of course, originate with the Mormons. It is a Protestant versus Catholic argument, but, given the ugly history of that schism, can we necessarily say it was real? And Mormonism merely piggy backed upon that argument, so we do need to ask ourselves whether it is real and true, as Mormons state it. By this I mean, does Mormonism stand or fall on whether there was a Great Apostasy? I am not sure the answer to that question but I think it deserves consideration.
curt, I think you are interpreting through your own lens – exactly as we all do. I just want to point out that, discussion of the apostasy aside, your description of the Catholic Church (an overall good thing despite its many historical, practical and doctrinal issues) would be a compelling description of the LDS Church – but the issues you seem to gloss over include some things that make anything in Mormon history pale in comparison. (I also am a history teacher by education and inclination, fwiw.) I don’t mention that last bit to demean the Catholic Church in any way, but I think it points to the idea that is one of the central “tenets” of this site:
Looking at something charitably makes a HUGE difference in how one is able to reconcile, appreciate, manage and grow in a religion – and if it is possible with the Catholic Church, it certainly is possible with the LDS Church.
Quote:The main goal of the church is personal salvation in Christ. It requires good works, to be sure, but all as ways of knowing Christ. Otherwise, it doesn’t demand dictates on one’s life. In other words, it is a true community of people _willfully_ engaging in a community based on Christ.
Yeah, it too has its restrictions. Like if you marry a non-Catholic, the children have to be raised RC.
Officially, it also demands the non-use of contraception, which I would consider to be a sacrifice FAR beyond the Word of Wisdom – for multiple reasons. Adds a new meaning to ‘I got rhythm’ (method).
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