Is this the place?

[Anonymous]

My story is quite typical, raised in the Church, served a mission and married in the temple. I am a 6th generation Mormon, from almost every line. I am a product of the earliest Mormon families valuing their lineage in the church and choosing mates accordingly. (For example I have several relatives mentioned in popular early Church history books, multiple great-grandfathers were associates of Joseph Smith.) My experience with Church history has been a familiar story of shock and disillusionment. I had early questions – things that didn’t quite fit, and a sense that there was more information out there, information that could persuade sensible people to question the ‘truthfulness’ of the Church. I was deathly afraid of “anti-Mormon” literature, so when I heard of a Deseret Book version of scholarly history – Rough Stone Rolling – I was eager to see if it provided any answers. It provided plenty more questions. At the same time Warren Jeffs was in the news, which sparked my curiosity and drew me into researching polygamy (one of my major issues). In a typical fashion RSR took me to Newell/Avery, Compton, Quinn, etc. etc. pretty much trying to avoid the blatantly critical, but wanting to hear the full story. As a result of my searching I realized I had been holding some misconceptions – some illusions I had incorporated into my personal view. (I think disillusionment is a very personal thing, and as Dr. Ulrich points out – losing your illusions is a healthy endeavor.) I relate to what Bushman says: “Without their familiar Mormon God, they are not sure there is any God at all.” In early 2007 I stood at that point were I wondered if I would choose Atheism or Agnosticism. I wasn’t sure about many things and was hesitant to perpetuate what appeared to be a bunch of myths.

http://www.fairlds.org/FAIR_Conferences/2005_Faith_Cognitive_Dissonance_and_the_Psychology_of_Religious_Experience.html

http://www.lifeongoldplates.com/2008/08/bushmans-introduction-to-joseph-smith.html

Then I started to wonder if I was burdened by my own narrow definitions. Did I need to accept someone else’s views on God, or could I start from scratch and allow my beliefs to build in a very personal and honest way? (Today I see this as ‘planting a seed’) I felt I should consider the questions: was there any unseen ‘power’ that ties us humans together? What if it’s just emotions, is there something valuable about the way love can bind us together? Is there some hard to pinpoint element behind the desire that we have to do good simply because it’s the ‘right’ thing to do? Why do I feel good when I sacrifice to help another? Why can I see the ‘greater good’ as a worthwhile, and make it an objective, when the time could be more efficiently spent furthering my personal goals? Why do I value knowing what is in fact the truth? Could the earth with all its beauty be the result of pure chance?

I started to piece these things together and decided I didn’t care what kind of baggage was attached to the word “God”. I decided for me, I would call the source of all these ‘feel good’ things God. I came to realize that I also defined God as the source of life (even if you want to call it the directive force behind evolution). Some people may say I’m substituting the word ‘God’ for other proper terms, playing with definitions. I’m okay with that, if we’re talking about the same thing (the source of goodness, truth and life), I’ll accept another term, no big deal. To me the heart of the matter is simple, and God’s purpose is unity, not division. Life is too short to get hung up on semantics all the time (I agree it can be vital at some times).

As I pondered these things I began to realize that I can (or do) believe in a great many things. I started to realize that I have a profound appreciation for the source of life, even though I won’t pretend to understand what that is exactly. Likewise I value the good in people, the love, and the respect for truth. As I let these ideas grow in my heart I came to realize that even though I had no clue as to the true nature of ‘God’, I had a sincere love for ‘Him’. Without a perfect understanding of what is behind these immeasurable elements or energy, I decided I was comfortable in adopting the commonly used, figurative image of a heavenly father. I think he would understand if my impressions are all wrong, I’m going off the best information (and inspiration) that I have.

So after much contemplation, today I can say I believe that God is the source of all life, all love, all truth, and everything that is good. I am starting to realize that this may be too narrow a definition of God, but it was my start.

I also have found belief in other things. I believe that faith can heal (doctors work hard to promote a positive attitude in their patients), and any catalyst for faith/belief (as in priesthood authority) can assist in the process. To me, God ‘does his work’ through people living on the earth. While I do see some divine or unknowable potential in each of us (the potential for faith to heal, and other unexplainable things) I see humans as the primary ‘medium’ of God.

I believe in personal revelation, that God can speak directly to the heart. Evidence of this is everywhere, from Mozart’s symphonies to the simple yet profound insights of a child. Human expression of, or interpretation of revelation will always be ‘imperfect’ as it is conveyed through the human medium. Spiritual truths are therefore ultimately subjective by definition, on this earth there is no physical proof for spiritual truth.

Everything that comes from God (directly or to serve his purposes? I’m still mulling over this one, but in general) is good, so if we “prove all things and hold fast to the good” we will continually draw closer to God. We prove all things by examining fruits (“by their fruits ye shall know them”). If we know the attributes of God we will recognize the fruits of his work, and will not be deceived by the cunning ways of man. (I see the contradiction – if God created man and everything in the earth you could say he also created the potential for evil. I’m not sure if that changes my perspective, or how to take that, but I still hold God as the source of good.)

The two great commandments (love God & love all men) cover the practical whole of God’s law. If we learn to love completely and unconditionally we will also be supporting life, truth, everything that is good, in short every purpose of God.

I believe in honoring and obeying the laws of the land (honorable laws, Nazi rule gives a contrary example). We should not judge one another, except to uphold the laws of society. If we spread God’s purpose/law (love/truth/goodness) by example, and lift others to a higher level of love/respect, the laws of the land will easily be fulfilled.

I claim the privilege of worshipping God according to the dictates of my own conscience, and offer all men/women the same privilege. I support and encourage everyone to worship how, where, or what they may — as they seek to understand truth and accomplish good with their lives.

I feel that God does not want me to believe anything that is not true, because doing so would contradict what he is (truth, love, life). God cannot lie, cannot hate, cannot do anything against his nature – and cannot encourage any man to act in any ungodly way. It is my purpose to follow God, to be ‘tutored by him’, to love and lift my fellowmen, to search out all discernible truths in life, and to support all goodness everywhere it is found. I also hope that all of mankind will find a similar purpose, so that together we can truly make the world a better place.

Today I realize that I relate to many elements found in many world religions – though I will not be defined by or confined to any label. I also admit freely that I could technically be called an agnostic, because I acknowledge that the existence of ‘God’ cannot be proven by any physical means. At the same time I do feel that I have a genuine belief in God, or some type of intangible ‘higher power’ – a belief that I see today as fruit of a seed previously planted. Most of all I have a desire to participate fully with the Mormon culture and tradition that I have lived in my entire life, to promote harmony with my family and community – but more importantly as a vehicle for personal spiritual growth. So here I am in hopes of gaining insight that will help me reach a state compatible with ‘full’ and most importantly honest participation in the Church. I have no interest in “playing the game” or “keeping up appearances”, no offense to anyone who may have a different approach. To me, if I am IN the church (and that is where I want to be) it is because I have a personal spiritual connection, even if it turns out to be somewhat different from what I imagined in my youth.

So here I am, looking forward to some meaningful discussions, and have high hopes for spiritual progress. I would love to hear about anyone (in person, from books, etc.) that has been where I am and has achieved where I want to go (to reach Fowler’s stage 5 for example).

I am very grateful to have found a place that seems to be perfectly aligned with my personal goals – yet realize that there are many different stages and flavors to this journey. Each individual lives something different, and I look forward to hearing from all types.

[Anonymous]

Hi Orson. Loved your essay on God. This has required a lot of contemplation on your part it appears. I am moved by the definition you have discovered in yourself.

In my process of disillusionment, I deconstructed my image of God. As I examined many different ways that various people describe or understand God, I began to doubt that any one or organization could rightly “know” how God is. So my “knowledge” based on lds doctrine disappeared, and was replaced with skepticism. So many attributes of God in the scriptures and other writings just feel wrong to me. I wondered, if so many other religions can define God in so many different ways, why can’t I? But it seems to me there is an element there of creating God in our own image.

Your story gives me some direction in the process of reconstructing my belief in God. Thanks for posting such a personal part of your journey.

[Anonymous]

I really liked your introduction Orson. It was very thoughtful and sincere. I am a long time lurker on this board. This is my first post. CC

[Anonymous]

Orson, thank you for the introduction. Very interesting. Many of the questions you have (or had) are not weaknesses.

The reality is, our spiritual life is ours to discover. No one will define it for us. I choose to look at it as a great adventure.

It hasn’t always been that way. I hope to hear more from you.

And Captain Conundrum, jump in & give us an introduction.

I would like to hear from you too.

I’m sure you have more to say.

Mike from Milton

[Anonymous]

Welcome to the stayLDS family, Orson.

Haha, I couldn’t resist. 😆

[Anonymous]

Orson wrote:

… Did I need to accept someone else’s views on God, or could I start from scratch and allow my beliefs to build in a very personal and honest way? … I came to realize that I also defined God as the source of life (even if you want to call it the directive force behind evolution). Some people may say I’m substituting the word ‘God’ for other proper terms, playing with definitions. I’m okay with that, if we’re talking about the same thing (the source of goodness, truth and life), I’ll accept another term, no big deal. To me the heart of the matter is simple, and God’s purpose is unity, not division.

…

So here I am, looking forward to some meaningful discussions, and have high hopes for spiritual progress. I would love to hear about anyone (in person, from books, etc.) that has been where I am and has achieved where I want to go (to reach Fowler’s stage 5 for example).

I am very grateful to have found a place that seems to be perfectly aligned with my personal goals – yet realize that there are many different stages and flavors to this journey. Each individual lives something different, and I look forward to hearing from all types.

excellent post, orson, and i agree with you compltely. i am not sure if anyone would be comfortable claiming to be at level 5 let alone 6, but i sense from your writing that you are comfortable and ar as much ‘there’ as anyone. to come to the realization that god is the unity we feel brings a distinct perspective–less magical and far mor wonderous.

looking forward to your posts…

[Anonymous]

It’s great to see these introductions from “way back in the day” get bumped up and reviewed. You worded things very well Orson.

I also like Dr Ulrich’s “losing your illusions is a healthy endeavor” – and just becoming aware of illusions is very productive, IMO.

I wonder as you review it 3 yrs later if you would revise it any now or add to it…or is it still pretty current for you?

[Anonymous]

Heber13 wrote:

I wonder as you review it 3 yrs later if you would revise it any now or add to it…or is it still pretty current for you?

Thanks for the question, I always enjoy an invitation to reflect. It is interesting how the journey covers different landscapes and shadows. When I read this I remember a super idealistic phase, which I now see as a couple steps away from an absolutist worldview. Today I am not as idealistic as a devoted Gandhi follower may be – for example. Not completely anyway though I do support the ideal. I remember thinking “ALWAYS forgive” while now I recognize some situations are more complex than what that simplistic answer can cover.

But other than a few small adjustments, yes I still consider it largely current. This came after the most powerful “spiritual” type transition of my life, I wrote this about a year and a half after the initial hot point of my crisis. You might say I am now in a new place of inertia, it is not easy to dramatically change a worldview.

[Anonymous]

Wow! I read this and just wept. I have been where you are at and had to draw a line in the sand. I have come to the conclusion that the gospel is true, and the “church” is a corporation. How you choose to define the gospel is a personal thing for you to explore. It is a rocky road to travel, but you will feel better about yourself by being true to your feelings and what you feel is right. God gave you a brain and I’m confident that he wants you to use it. I wish you the best of luck with the course you have chosen.

[Anonymous]

I don’t usually like to bump old threads, but I’m going to this time. Based on some of the comments I’ve seen from Orson, I decided to go look up his introduction thread. I think Orson’s worldview is probably the closest I feel I can come to real faith in God. Thanks for being here and sharing your views with us, Orson.

By the way, it sounds like you must be a descendent of Joel Hills Johnson. So am I. I have pioneer ancestors way back on both sides.

[Anonymous]

I have looked back at many of the introductions and significant posts of those here that I respect. (Please don’t anyone feel slighted, I respect the vast majority of you even though I haven’t read all of your back stories.) It really helps me when someone posts something to see, “Yeah, I can see where he’s coming from” or “I know why she believes that.” If anyone took some of my comments out of this context they might think I’m a heretic apostate. That said, reading Orson’s intro again was good for me. There are especially a couple others I would recommend reading, but maybe I should let you discover them for yourselves.

[Anonymous]

Thank you for kind words, they are meaningful. After several years we may start to think the journey may be getting a little stale, or at least routine, but honest personal connections are always food for the soul. I am glad we can share here.

[Author]

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