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Like the title says – it’s been a hard week. On Monday night I saw some online discussions about Elder Holland’s BYU speech. On Tuesday I read the talk and listened to the Questions from the Closet podcast response to it, and in the days that followed I spent hours reading more discussions about it on various platforms. On Friday two of my siblings emailed the rest of the family letting us know they are leaving/have left the church. I think I was the least surprised, but I spent Friday night trying to help the rest of my family process the news and then Saturday helping those two siblings process the not-so-good response from my parents. Outside of church-related issues, this week I also negotiated switching from full-time to part-time work for a while so I can start to properly deal with the mental health issues I’ve been facing for the past 2 months. Today the final, planned-last-minute speaker in sacrament meeting was my stake president, who felt impressed to address Elder Holland’s speech. To his credit, I was glad it was addressed from the pulpit and I appreciated that he emphasized reading or listening to the talk yourself instead of relying on secondary sources to tell you what to think about it. But his interpretation was that most of the online discussion misconstrues Elder Holland’s intentions and twists his words, and that if you read it for yourself you’ll find a message of love rather than a message of division. I’m sure there are others who feel that way about the speech, too, but my stake president’s talk felt dismissive of the very real concerns that many people have about it.
Now, with all that context from the last 7 days, we come to the 5th Sunday lesson, followed by a 15-minute private discussion I had with my bishop. For the lesson, bishopric did an open Q&A answering anonymous questions submitted by ward members. Some of the things we discussed were how to effectively include women’s perspectives and how to root out racism within the ward. Members of the bishopric took turns answering questions but also opened the floor to anyone who wanted to share. They really seem like they care about diversity and want the ward and the church to be the best it can be rather than just try to keep things running somewhat smoothly.
Besides the actual reason for my meeting with the bishop afterwards (discussing callings), we talked more about Elder Holland’s speech. We both had issues with the use of the musket fire metaphor and were disheartened that church leaders continue to target the LGBTQ community. He had also listened to the Questions from the Closet podcast episode, which led to a discussing other church-related podcasts we listen to. Again, like in the lesson earlier, it showed that he actively seeks out marginalized perspectives. (Some that he mentioned were Listen, Learn & Love and At Last She Said It.) I also told him how I appreciate the very few podcast episodes that feature asexual church members since there’s little to no representation in church circles and shared a bit about my journey in discovering my own asexuality. He knew very little about asexuality but had listened to the Questions from the Closet episode on it and was happy to hear my thoughts as well. All in all, I left church today feeling more hopeful than I have all week.
Yes, It does seem to be a hard week. Just this morning (not yet 9am) I have seen two memes from church members with quotes from Elder Holland’s talk (love doesn’t mean condoning etc.). Was Elder Holland’s speech a factor in your siblings leaving the church or was it just a coincidence?
HazyShadeofFall wrote:
But his interpretation was that most of the online discussion misconstrues Elder Holland’s intentions and twists his words, and that if you read it for yourself you’ll find a message of love rather than a message of division. I’m sure there are others who feel that way about the speech, too, but my stake president’s talk felt dismissive of the very real concerns that many people have about it.
When news of the POX – Policy of Exclusion was breaking my mother reacted similarly. She didn’t see the big deal. Why would LGBTQ+ people want to be a member of a church that taught that their relationships were sinful? To her, it was like a black person wanting to join the KKK or a boy wanting to join an all girl sports team and then being surprised when they were kicked out.I think perhaps Elder Hollands speech could be compared to saying “all lives matter”. On the surface it appears to be loving and inclusive.
I am very much heartened by hearing about your bishopric and bishop. They sound like wonderful leaders and great supports for people that find themselves on the edges.
One of my children may be asexual. She identifies as demi sexual (someone who only develops sexual feelings after a romantic relationship grows). However, she has not been in a romantic relationship yet so she may find that when it (the relationship) happens the sexual feelings never materialize. I am trying to be supportive and understanding and it feels very strange to be the “out of touch” parent. You mentioned the Closet episode, is that the full name of the podcast? Do you have any additional resources that I could look into?
My week has not been as tough as yours, but I am on vacation so it shouldn’t be! Holland was/is tough for me with millennial children some of which are BYU students and I’m married to a die hard Holland fan. 🙄 I agree with Roy. I’ve read the talk, and it’s very much like an “all lives matter” statement (thanks for the analogy Roy).But it sounds as though you have a gem of a bishop – a rarity!
I don’t actually mind statements like your SP to read for yourself and draw your own conclusions. The only trouble is that often (not always) if you draw a different conclusion than theirs is what they expect you’re still wrong. I don’t know this to be the case with your SP because i don’t know him.
I’ve always had the impression that the church is more tolerant (if that’s the word) of certain marginal sexualities and less tolerant of single people in general, or anything that smacks of pro-sexuality in general. This was certainly my experience in my church days and one of the factors that led to my disaffection. I certainly see the culture changing somewhat, but not to an extent where I’d feel comfortable returning even casually. I plan to attend a couple of temple Open Houses in the near future (really looking forward to the reopening of the SLC temple in ’24 fwiw) and hopefully may be able to engage in some conversation with volunteers there to try to get a sense of where the church is at these days in terms of lifestyle openness.
Roy wrote:
One of my children may be asexual. She identifies as demi sexual (someone who only develops sexual feelings after a romantic relationship grows). However, she has not been in a romantic relationship yet so she may find that when it (the relationship) happens the sexual feelings never materialize. I am trying to be supportive and understanding and it feels very strange to be the “out of touch” parent. You mentioned the Closet episode, is that the full name of the podcast? Do you have any additional resources that I could look into?
Yes, the name of the podcast is Questions from the Closet. For more resources that may help you understand your child, there’s a Family & Friends FAQ page on asexuality.org which you can find here:
http://asexuality.org/?q=family.html . It doesn’t look like there is an FAQ page specifically for demisexuality on this website unfortunately, and I’m not familiar with demisexual-specific resources.Roy wrote:
Was Elder Holland’s speech a factor in your siblings leaving the church or was it just a coincidence?
I’m not sure. My sister has had a lot of the same concerns I have in recent years, so I wouldn’t be surprised, but I haven’t talked to her about her reasons for leaving yet. My brother actually left the church a few years ago and tried to hide it at first (to varying degrees of success – my parents were surprised but none of my siblings or I were), and telling us now seemed to be more about solidarity with my sister than anything else.
(I don’t comment here very often and I still struggle a bit with formatting. Hopefully I don’t make this thread too messy.)
DarkJedi wrote:
I don’t actually mind statements like your SP to read for yourself and draw your own conclusions. The only trouble is that often (not always) if you draw a different conclusion than theirs is what they expect you’re still wrong. I don’t know this to be the case with your SP because i don’t know him.
Yeah, like I mentioned I really appreciated that he encouraged us to go directly to the source. I don’t know my stake president well so it’s hard to say if he would accept other conclusions. The general vibe I got from his talk is that he wouldn’t, but that could just be me projecting my own pain surrounding the whole topic. It could very well be the case that
I’mthe one having troubles accepting that others could read Elder Holland’s talk and come to a different conclusion from me. HazyShadeofFall wrote:
Roy wrote:
One of my children may be asexual. She identifies as demi sexual (someone who only develops sexual feelings after a romantic relationship grows). However, she has not been in a romantic relationship yet so she may find that when it (the relationship) happens the sexual feelings never materialize. I am trying to be supportive and understanding and it feels very strange to be the “out of touch” parent. You mentioned the Closet episode, is that the full name of the podcast? Do you have any additional resources that I could look into?
Yes, the name of the podcast is Questions from the Closet. For more resources that may help you understand your child, there’s a Family & Friends FAQ page on asexuality.org which you can find here:
http://asexuality.org/?q=family.html . It doesn’t look like there is an FAQ page specifically for demisexuality on this website unfortunately, and I’m not familiar with demisexual-specific resources.
Thank you for the resources. From what I have read so far on the website you listed, demisexuality is on the spectrum (or umbrella) of asexuality. I am trying my best to accept what my child tells us about herself while also providing room for her to discover new things about herself in the future. Honestly, one of my fears is that this might mean no relationship, companionship, or family life for her going forward. Nothing is certain, but from what I am reading, it sounds like asexual people can form deep committed relationships that may even include a sexual component and thus have families. This helps me to frame demisexuality in a more positive and hopeful sense.
I attended church yesterday for the first time in a long time (due to pandemic and work schedule). It was really boring because many of the things that were being said seemed largely irrelevant to me. On the other hand, it was nice to see everyone. Lots of familiar faces and I had a felling of belonging.
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