Jana Reiss’ – Millenials/Church Changes

[Anonymous]

Roy wrote:

https://bycommonconsent.com/2019/06/19/book-review-jana-riess-the-next-mormons/#more-109181

Some quotes from the book review on common consent:

Quote:

though church leaders have long worried about the corrupting influence of college campuses, it turns out that more education correlates with greater church retention and even orthodoxy. (The one exception cited is women with an advanced academic degree, who are actually more likely to leave, see pp. 106–107.)

I wonder if the type of women that might aspire to advanced degrees might be a poor fit for the church or if their experience in the church while working for and after attaining an advanced degree might make the church an increasing poor fit for them. Probably a mixture of both.

It’s not just women going back to college that encounter this. We watch a ton of “Great Courses” as a family (ok, the kids tune in periodically…) and my husband is back in school online for a history degree (yay)! We have always had conversations about gender roles and expectations (yes, some of them are give-and-take about my non-conformity) – but my husband’s view has changed from being easily threatened to more thoughtful and really hearing my point of view.

We are lucky that our branch culture is more accepting and pragmatic about a lot of lifestyle choices. Either that, or my family is more outside of and oblivious to the censure.

Roy wrote:

Women in leadership positions can be important developmentally for girls as they grow. However the more voice women are given the more they may use that voice to do something other than echo what the current male power structure tells them. The girls that need strong female voices the most would likely grow into the type of women that would find life in the church unfulfilling. Do we continue to clip their wings or do we give them the tools that they need to make changes to our organization or fly away as their perogative.

That is an important question. The related questions are a) What do men gain and lose by changing the power structure of the church? b) What do women gain and lose when the power structure of the church changes from a position of indirect power and leadership to an explicit one? c) How do we start gender role conversations that provide balance and clarity without going up in flames at higher levels of leadership?

[Anonymous]

So, I’m as prone as the next person to refer to “Millenials” as a monolith, but last week I watched a youtube of Adam Conover talking about how generations are myths and very misleading.

Which actually is one aspect of Jana’s research that at first I found troubling (that so many Mormon millenials are very conservative, unlike their non-LDS same-age cohorts), but in light of his (kind of obvious) observation, it makes more sense. Yes. trends emerge over time, society progresses (or regresses) in its various ways, but what the “next Mormons” look like are only a subset of what the so-called “Millenials” are like. And these are all stereotypes. Every person differs, and we can’t treat them like a stereotype but like individuals.

Here’s a link to the video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-HFwok9SlQQ

[Anonymous]

hawkgrrrl wrote:

So, I’m as prone as the next person to refer to “Millenials” as a monolith, but last week I watched a youtube of Adam Conover talking about how generations are myths and very misleading.

Which actually is one aspect of Jana’s research that at first I found troubling (that so many Mormon millenials are very conservative, unlike their non-LDS same-age cohorts), but in light of his (kind of obvious) observation, it makes more sense. Yes. trends emerge over time, society progresses (or regresses) in its various ways, but what the “next Mormons” look like are only a subset of what the so-called “Millenials” are like. And these are all stereotypes. Every person differs, and we can’t treat them like a stereotype but like individuals.

Here’s a link to the video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-HFwok9SlQQ

I run into this all the time when I speak on personality theory. Everyone wants to be thought of as an individual — and everyone is. We can classify and categorize all we want, but when you come down to it, people ARE unique and resist any kind of pigeon-holing.

But the fact is, there are trends. And to make sense of the world, we NEED to understand majorities, large trends, and categories when making group-level decisions, while also recognizing there is variance around the mean.

I have noticed that yes, the younger generation is generally more tech savvy with day-to-day technology than the older generation. I notice they tend to use ghosting (non-responding) a lot more than the older generation. This can form a basis for decision-making when you are making decisions on a large scale.

When it comes to working with individuals, you have to find out where they stand — to what extent to the broad trends apply? But trends and categories and classification systems are highly useful when making big picture decisions.

[Anonymous]

I have seen this also. I hired a millennial and they seemed to have most of the stereotypical behaviors his generation is seen as having by old farts like me. He wouldn’t show up to meetings (including walking in late to a meeting with a VP – TWICE). I kept coaching him and it seemed it wasn’t improving anything. I finally had to tell him, “You are just about to get yourself fired.” He was totally shocked.

My point isn’t to prove that the stereotype is always wrong. I did notice at the same time someone that was hired the very same day from the very same college and even the same degree as my hire. This guy was on fire. He came to every meeting with, “Give me more work – hard work that I have to learn in order to do.” More than once I saw him raise his hand and volunteer to do something, then stay up all night that night and show up to work the next morning not looking physically that great, but with pride on his face and able to say, “That thing you guys gave me 2 weeks to do, I got it done. It is cool – let me show you what I learned.”

Cohorts probably do have general tendencies, but individuals are still individuals.

[Anonymous]

A couple thoughts from a resident “Millennial” here.

First, a reminder I like to offer when people start categorizing us. The initial article referenced does specify Millennial and Gen Z. Please do not forget, in 2021, there will be 40-year-old Millennials. We aren’t exactly “young whipper snappers.” I think people imagine young 20-somethings and don’t acknowledge the older end of the generation. And along with this is the statement that these thoughts are for me, and what I have observed from my peers. I have seen other Millennials interacting online who do not fit my views as closely.

A lot of what comes with being a Millennial is the realization that life isn’t what we expected it to be. Dissatisfaction and the interest in perusing a “better version of yourself” stems from this, and it has an impact on the approach to church. When we express this, older generations peg us as whining, but I argue that we simply have to live in a world that is different than the one we were raised to. Our parents and teachers didn’t know how to prepare us for the world of social media and the internet, because these things didn’t exist. They didn’t know how to prepare us for a world in which housing costs are significantly more than the historic 25% of annual income – the “industry guidance” has even changed up to 30% in the last year or two!! And as we learn to adapt to this changing world, we are being held up (especially in church) to an outdated standard.

I’m turning 30 this year. I do not own a home. I am not married. I don’t even really date currently. And I feel like I’m not progressing, because I have been taught to measure progress against traditional steps that are not happening for me. When I started to come to terms with this, I also became more comfortable not going to every lesson at church. Because I started to see “my best life” in terms that aren’t recognized by the church. Many people can and do rectify these measurements of success and find comfort and a place in the church. Many do not. This disconnect and dissonance between the expectation we were raised to and the reality of our lives and our own developed desires impacts every element of our social network. The church is trying to mitigate these gaps as best they can, but it is something prior generations have not felt amplified in the same way (due to social media), so it is an immense challenge. I appreciate what they are doing to try. That doesn’t mean it’s solved everything yet, but I – and many other Millennials – do appreciate the effort of someone trying to help us rectify our shattered expectations.

Now, because the way in which our life is not what we expected differs, that is where you find more varieties in the trends. I am very fortunate in my financial life due to the great start my parents gave me and my own hard work and caution. Socially, not so much. I have no close friends living in the same state as me, forget about anything romantic, and I only get to spend time with my family when someone gets on an airplane. So my concerns and places of stubbornness and “Millennialness” will be different than my friends who choose to live at home to avoid the outrageous price of rent or to save for something longer-term. As will my weaknesses and strengths.

mom3 wrote:

The thing I envy most about Millennial’s is their ability to be unfazed. I love the freedom of guilt they have. I can see concern for that freedom but I think more of them aren’t as burdened as post war people are.

This also comes back to how we were raised, I think. We were told we control our feelings. If the bully hit you, choose to not be angry. If that person teased you, choose to try to be friends. If you messed up at the thing, choose to be motivated by the challenge. So, when faced with what appears to be the impossible task of living an outdated lifestyle in order to gain “success” in the eyes of those you look up to, we have chosen not to internalize guilt or shame. I made a goal in high school, sometime during a lesson about choosing how we react to things. I promised myself I would “live for no regrets.” I have chosen to forgive myself of mistakes I have made and no longer regret them. If I am having trouble letting something go and I can do something to change it, I do. As of today, I have one minor regret collected on a recent trip, but I’ve already started talking to myself and thinking through the forgiveness. (Silly thing – didn’t buy a piece of art I really wish I had to hang up now.) Soon, I won’t harbor any regrets. All the people who taught us to choose our reactions could learn to do this too. I am glad I was taught this lesson. The more I internalize it, the less I hesitate in living life to the fullest.

Now, saying that anything about Millennials stems from our upbringing is not in any way an attempt to shift blame. I’ve seen that, and I don’t think it’s helpful. But analyzing where the mindset comes from is helpful in developing a way forward, imo.

Wow… I go silent here and then just word dump. I’m grateful to all of you who actually read what I say here. Thanks!

[Anonymous]

Daughter1 wrote:

A couple thoughts from a resident “Millennial” here.

First, a reminder I like to offer when people start categorizing us. The initial article referenced does specify Millennial and Gen Z. Please do not forget, in 2021, there will be 40-year-old Millennials. We aren’t exactly “young whipper snappers.” I think people imagine young 20-somethings and don’t acknowledge the older end of the generation. And along with this is the statement that these thoughts are for me, and what I have observed from my peers. I have seen other Millennials interacting online who do not fit my views as closely.

That’s me

My husband likes to think I am a young Gen X like he is (but really, I don’t identify as this).

Daughter1 wrote:

And I feel like I’m not progressing, because I have been taught to measure progress against traditional steps that are not happening for me.

I managed to check off the main check boxes, but I don’t feel that I belong necessarily, and to be honest, I expect to stand out regularly (this was before the faith transition).

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