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re: #3 – That certainly has been and is an issue for some people here over time and now, but it is a gross over-simplification of our group as a whole. John hasn’t been involved actively here ever, really, so I understand his inability to give a more comprehensive description of us – even though it bothers me that a partial one is out there to feed mis-perceptions.
Old-Timer wrote:re: #3 – That certainly has been and is an issue for some people here over time and now, but it is a gross over-simplification of our group as a whole.
John hasn’t been involved actively here ever, really, so I understand his inability to give a more comprehensive description of us – even though it bothers me that a partial one is out there to feed mis-perceptions.
Old-Timer – 12,169 posts
Silent Dawning – 4,202 posts
Heber13 – 4,085 posts
LookingHard – 328
Johndehlin – 159 posts
I think that would be a fair statement by Ray. And I added myself as someone that only joined in October and I have twice as many posts as John – not trying to brag as I am sure many of my posts are not that dramatic.
LookingHard wrote:Old-Timer – 12,169 posts
Silent Dawning – 4,202 posts
Heber13 – 4,085 posts
LookingHard – 328
Johndehlin – 159 posts
Oh man, when did SD leap frog me???? I better stop slacking!
😆 Can he catch Ray?? I doubt it.It does seem that from John’s podcasts he has shared that he tried to stay at church, his own version of StayLDS, but hasn’t participated here about it. He seems to mention it as an option for “some people”, meaning not him.
That’s ok. There are lots of paths for people. But it is a good distinction that his path is not the same we talk about here for many of us. And certainly, not everyone here has one approach, nor is it all family ties related, although as Ray said…that is part of it for some of us. Just perhaps too narrow of a characteristic.
That makes it sound like we don’t believe and just stay for family ties. Again, could be some of it for some of us. But there are examples here also of believers staying, just dealing with the problems that truly exist.
Agreed. But I would like to thank him (and any others responsible) for setting this site up. I can’t believe what a slacker I’ve been. I’m just over 2200. Newbee here again. Lurker extraordinare. JDs podcast really helped me through some difficult times, and added some difficulty as well. Looking back, and re-listening to MS podcasts, I noticed his evolution from one who was doubting/searching and non-biased. Some of the later episodes it was apparent that not only was the non-biased portion gone, but there was something else that seemed pervasive. Hard to put it into words, but it was more difficult to listen to him. What impressed me so much in the beginning was his ability to keep biases out from both sides, but that seemed to be gone somewhere along the way.
That being said he is on his own faith evolution, like the rest of us, and there is plenty of support wherever he goes with it. I am glad for all the work that he did.
hawkgrrrl wrote:I can’t believe what a slacker I’ve been. I’m just over 2200.
I was just being polite and not point that out
🙂 You have had some other posts the last few months on internet that have really been good. Maybe the last few months are just your norm, but that is how long I have found some of the sites she posts on.
You Go Girrrl!
Quote:I can’t believe what a slacker I’ve been. I’m just over 2
Hawkgrrl – We’ll pray for you.
hawkgrrrl wrote:I can’t believe what a slacker I’ve been. I’m just over 2200.
Looks like I win the slacker crown.
😳 …I like to focus on quality over quantity, — at least that will be my story.
Lds Scoutmaster – I appreciate your bringing this message board back to it’s original intent. Which was to discuss John Dehlin’s probable excommunication. John’s talk “Why I stay” given at the Sunstone conference is the reason I am staying in this church. If they excommunicate him, which is highly likely, then I will be making an exit as well. Because if they don’t want him, then they don’t want me either.
I have noticed that the Savior was kind, and loving and accepting and forgiving to everyone except the Pharisees. The Savior had zero tolerance for their hypocrisy. He was a radical who pissed off his local church leaders something fierce.
I realize that John is not the Savior of the world, but he is a radical that has managed to piss off his church leaders. To the outside world, the Church leaders are looking very much like bullies. The church should be mature and confident enough to handle a little criticism, but clearly they aren’t.
30 years from now, John Dehlin’s work will most likely be recognized as healing and authentic. Not sure if that is what will happen for the church.
With some sadness, I am starting to realize that the church is deeply engrained in the cycle of abuse. That is why KK was excommunicated, it explains September 6, and also explains that while the Freedom of speech and Freedom of the press might be important to the church, they do not allow the same freedoms for their members.
twolamps wrote:Lds Scoutmaster – I appreciate your bringing this message board back to it’s original intent. Which was to discuss John Dehlin’s probable excommunication.
John’s talk “Why I stay” given at the Sunstone conference is the reason I am staying in this church. If they excommunicate him, which is highly likely, then I will be making an exit as well. Because if they don’t want him, then they don’t want me either.
I have noticed that the Savior was kind, and loving and accepting and forgiving to everyone except the Pharisees. The Savior had zero tolerance for their hypocrisy. He was a radical who pissed off his local church leaders something fierce.
I realize that John is not the Savior of the world, but he is a radical that has managed to piss off his church leaders. To the outside world, the Church leaders are looking very much like bullies. The church should be mature and confident enough to handle a little criticism, but clearly they aren’t…
I stumbled on Staylds about 5 years ago and it’s made a difference for me. But I have to say that the speech I heard him make back then and the one he made on Tribtalk aren’t the same. He’s not the same person that he was back then and if and when he’s ex’d then so be it. I wish him well but I’m the same as I was five years ago and I’m staying. I really don’t think the issue is that the church doesn’t want him. I think JD has reached a point where he can’t put aside the things that he can’t reconcile and he can’t stop talking about it and it’s reached a point where he and his SP can’t see that it can keep going on. Like I said earlier, time to move on.
Hi GBSmith, I appreciate your candor and reply. However, I must respectfully disagree.
John already knows that the church is about to kick him to the curb. I think that would change anyone. This has to be a heartbreaking time for him and his family. He has helped many people stay in the church. He has offered a forum for support and acceptance that is unprecedented.
I would be remiss not to thank him for his work. And I don’t think he should be so casually dismissed at staylds.com. “Time to move on” seems a bit brutal.
From his “Why I stay” talk…
“And so I just can’t stay quiet about the difficult aspects of Mormonism –if it means writing all of these people off as necessary casualties for the cause. If a loving God is at the head of this church, then there has to be a way for Mormonism to generate less casualties in its wake.”
LDS_Scoutmaster wrote:Newbee here again. Lurker extraordinare.
JDs podcast really helped me through some difficult times, and added some difficulty as well. Looking back, and re-listening to MS podcasts, I noticed his evolution from one who was doubting/searching and non-biased. Some of the later episodes it was apparent that not only was the non-biased portion gone, but there was something else that seemed pervasive. Hard to put it into words, but it was more difficult to listen to him. What impressed me so much in the beginning was his ability to keep biases out from both sides, but that seemed to be gone somewhere along the way.
That being said he is on his own faith evolution, like the rest of us, and there is plenty of support wherever he goes with it.
I am glad for all the work that he did. Me, too. I haven’t listened to all of them, and haven’t “loved” all that I have listened to, but I hope they get more attention and traffic. I think it will be a very long time before anyone else produces anything like them, especially given that some of his interviewees won’t be alive to contribute much longer.
So, yeah, I think they were uneven, some were boring, some were bitter. I don’t think he’s the most brilliant thinker or interviewer out there, but as far as I saw, he never pretended to be anything but who he was in the given moment.
I wish I could tell his bishop and stake president that I’m here now in large part because of Mormon Stories and the world they opened up to me. I can think of a couple times that I just sat and cried tears of joy, relief, hope, frustration, regret…. And when “Come, Come, Ye Saints” played I felt I still belonged.
There are people on other sites saying really harsh things and I don’t haven’t the foggiest idea whether he “deserves” it. I’m just thankful for Mormon Stories. I wish the church would leave him alone to become, on his own, whatever history will make of him.
Ann wrote:but I hope they get more attention and traffic.
Well the Lord works in mysterious ways and maybe ex-ing John will bring even more traffic to Mormon Stories.
Quote:I don’t think he should be so casually dismissed at staylds.com.
He is not being casually dismissed at StayLDS.com – by anyone.We, of all people, appreciate the great good he has done over the years. However, we, of all people, also understand the complexity of the situation as well as most people – and that understanding helps us understand this is NOT about us; it’s about John. I have said before that I love, admire and respect John – but I also have zero anger over the possibility that he might be excommunicated. In the wise words of President Uchtdorf, “It’s not that simple” – and making this about anyone other than John, in my opinion, is a HUGE mistake. John is not any one of us; he is himself – and that self is a complex, multi-dimensional, mercurial, nearly bi-polar at times self. He has done great good, but he also has done great harm – and this absolutely is NOT about an impatient Stake President and a saintly member.
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