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It looks like John Dehlin is not going to “Stay LDS”. You can read about it in his statement on Mormon Stories hereA few of the more telling quotes:
Quote:….I no longer believe many of the fundamental LDS church truth claims (e.g., anthropomorphic God, “one true church with exclusive authority,” that the current LDS church prophet receives privileged communications from God, that The Book of Mormon and The Book of Abraham are translations, polygamy, racist teachings in the Book of Mormon, that ordinances are required for salvation, proxy work for the dead).
Quote:I am also troubled by their historical and current approaches to faith/doubt, sexuality, the pursuit of vast commercial interests along with financial non-disclosure, the coercion/shaming of members through the withholding of temple and priesthood privileges, and the current culture of leader worship within the LDS church.
So, will John be forced out, or will they let him stay on his own terms?I take it this is a new statement? Frankly, I agree with much of it and could have written it myself – and I’m on the way in. I don’t see it as an indication he’s on the way out, but maybe I’m missing something. I believe it was posted today or yesterday. The difference between you (DarkJedi) and John (besides you being Luke’s father) is that you are mostly in the closet, while John is blasting his beliefs for the whole world to see. Try giving a talk as in a ward (in capacity of your new calling!) and state your non testimony of the below like John did, and see how long you last! John has a much bigger pulpit, which requires a much bigger hammer to quash.
Quote:Good morning. To set the record straight, I do not believe:
1. In an anthropomorphic God
2. The LDS church is the one true church with exclusive authority
3. that the current LDS church prophet receives privileged communications from God,
4. that The Book of Mormon and The Book of Abraham are translations,
5. That Polygamy was ever required by God,
6. In the racist teachings in the Book of Mormon,
7. that ordinances are required for salvation,
8. proxy work for the dead
John is finishing his doctorate and moving on to the next phase in his life. Maybe it’s a good time to move on in other ways. He could leave Cache Valley, which might make a big difference if he decides to live and attend church somewhere less…intense. Either way, I am grateful for Mormon Stories, and I am hopeful that the results of his PhD research will lead to some policy changes re LGBT issues and the church.
Interesting. Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk
He’s really boxed himself into a corner if he wants to come back again. I always think of that eventuality, and you’ll never find me publicly admitting my own concerns and biases. Mine aren’t the same as John’s, but I sure hope he’s comfortable with the implications of what he wrote for all to see — especially since he’s one of the most public figures on the bloggernacle. Wow. He has really stated most of my feelings most eloquently. John and I don’t always see eye to eye on many things. I do appreciate many of his podcasts, and the introduction of podcasts to the LDS community. I love some of the break off groups that he has helped create. However, I find him overly dramatic and rather volatile. He has wide swinging emotional pendulum that isn’t bad, but it makes any great announcement from him uncertain. I almost see his new statement as an ante for the church. Bit like a dare. If John were to leave or the church to push him out it could be explosive – a bit like Jenga. John can’t afford that, not if he intends to make a successful practice, he can’t burn a bridge or have it be burned for him. I think this is just the pendulum swinging out – with hope of maybe drawing some attention to something he is doing. John never does anything quietly. The fact that he felt the need to announce this new personal write up on his facebook, and attribute it to others, “others have asked me” or “I have been asked”, makes me think there is another agenda.
If he goes – I hope he finds peace. I don’t him personally but he seems troubled to me.
If he wants to go, go. I’m tired of hearing about it every six months. Sheldon wrote:I believe it was posted today or yesterday. The difference between you (DarkJedi) and John (besides you being Luke’s father) is that you are mostly in the closet, while John is blasting his beliefs for the whole world to see. Try giving a talk as in a ward (in capacity of your new calling!) and state your non testimony of the below like John did, and see how long you last! John has a much bigger pulpit, which requires a much bigger hammer to quash.
Quote:Good morning. To set the record straight, I do not believe:
1. In an anthropomorphic God
2. The LDS church is the one true church with exclusive authority
3. that the current LDS church prophet receives privileged communications from God,
4. that The Book of Mormon and The Book of Abraham are translations,
5. That Polygamy was ever required by God,
6. In the racist teachings in the Book of Mormon,
7. that ordinances are required for salvation,
8. proxy work for the dead
You are right Sheldon, John is much more public than I am, apparently by design, and I certainly would not state the above beliefs publicly even though I agree with them for the most part. And I agree that if I did I would likely be sanctioned in some way (although that may be little more than being released). I certainly think there was a time in the not so distant past when John would likely have been excommunicated for publishing a statement like that. I also see a maturing church where that likelihood is not great today.Yes, I am Luke’s father (different Luke, but he is a Jedi like his father before him), but I am not a Sith. In the context of this board, the dark part relates to my doubts – once one starts down the dark path “forever it will dominate your destiny” (Yoda). That is, I cannot return to my prior beliefs – I am a Mormon but I know the dark side and that cannot be changed.
SamBee wrote:If he wants to go, go. I’m tired of hearing about it every six months.
I’m glad I’ve not made the public profile for myself that John has.
Only my DW gets close to knowing the extent of my regular pendulum swing between loving it and wanting to stay and being entirely fed-up and wanting to go. I don’t always share it here either.
I agree that John is being very public about the whole thing. But the swing back and forth is normal and I can empathise with it.
Quote:I agree that John is being very public about the whole thing. But the swing back and forth is normal and I can empathise with it.
Maybe that is my impatience with him is his publicness about it. I too have better stretches and seasons with this. That is why this board/ward is so helpful to me, it’s why I love the podcast community, and the other bloggernacle sites. They do help.
I guess the dual frustration for me is that his public – persona sometimes hurts the cause of Stayer’s rather than helps. Which brings me to the second frustration, I let him into my life. It’s the same wrestle I have with GA’s. I pick up the dung on the road and should just leave it. So he swings, I lash out, and our stupid cycle continues. Clearly I need to grow up, too.
Great point mom3. I get vacillating. What’s tough is that John Dehlin doesn’t speak for me. I’m sure he’s a great guy, and I wish him the best of luck in every endeavor, but he’s very well-known in certain circles and I don’t agree with him in his approach or even some conclusions. I’m sort of sensitive to this because I am an Atheist. I can’t stand having people take the name Atheist and then talk as if they are talking for me. I feel the same kinds of feelings about JD. Again, though, I hope he finds his way, just as I hope for myself. This is all just very indicative to me of the peril of setting up humans as standards to which we should look and emulate. Whether it’s John Dehlin or the prophet, it only leads to frustration. Of course, between John Dehlin and the prophet, one of the two has been pretty clear that he’s not asking us to follow him. The other, not so much. For that I give John lots of credit. He never asked any of us to hold him up as a standard. And yet many do. That’s not his fault. It’s ours.
To me, John personifies the very real struggle that exists in trying to carve out a non-orthodox life inside the church. His pendulum swings have made it easier for me to not get so frustrated when I think one day I have it all figured out, only to have it all come crashing down the next Sunday. I expect frustration and disappointment and a lack of resolution because that’s what I see John going through.
So while some of you may be annoyed, I find comfort in John’s story, as much of a roller coaster as it may be.
And, if we’re really being honest, John has done such great work that Mormon Stories isn’t the only outlet you have available to turn to if you’re going through a faith crisis (this board included).
So, if you don’t like what you’re hearing, just change the channel. Sometimes it really is that simple.
I love and admire John– but I also am convinced he has some kind of condition that makes him swing wildly from one position to another. This appears to be one of his down emotional times.
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