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May 27, 2014 at 11:27 pm #284132
Anonymous
GuestIt’s not a big deal, but I want to point out that the marriage of Hosea and the prostitute is a metaphor. May 28, 2014 at 12:32 am #284133Anonymous
GuestAren’t all men fallen? Therefore, is there anything other than a fallen and fallible prophet? I guess the question of being a fallen prophet relates more to is he leading the church astray. Where it concerns polygamy, personally, I think yes, he was off track. I don’t believe it was divinely instituted. But we sure downgraded in picking up Brigham Young three years later. He took that practice and made it 50x worse. May 28, 2014 at 2:24 am #284134Anonymous
Guestshoshin wrote:…
I would start with his writings, including the Doctrine and Covenants. When you read that does it sound like it was written by an evil person?
Is polygamy bad? Well Abraham did it. It seems bizarre to you and me in our culture, but what is essentially bad about it? Is it worse than modern people living together?…
Yes. I think D&C 132 was an “evil” message. Maybe not written by an “evil” person.
Yes. I think the way JS lived polygamy is worse than modern people living together.
So, based solely on those two caveats, I would conclude JS was a fallen “prophet.”
Edited. ..
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May 28, 2014 at 3:07 am #284135Anonymous
GuestIn response to Shoshin, no I don’t believe the D&C was written by evil people – nor do I believe it is all revelation, inspiration, or whatever. Just because it wasn’t written by evil people and can be generally considered “good” does not make it scripture, doctrine, etc. There are thousands of stories of good vs. evil with good triumphing in the end that are great and worthwhile – but not scripture, not revelation (although I believe Star Wars contains some stuff that should be scripture ).
I agree with you that no prophet has been perfect, many were far from it. Part of the question really is, were they actually called of God or did they just convince people that they were? Historically many monarchs in different parts of the world claimed “divine right” or “mandate of heaven,” but was it so? I’ve said this to you before, I do believe Joseph Smith had a profound spiritual experience in the grove, and I believe his testimony of that. I’m really on the fence about whether he was instructed to create a church, but it’s OK with me that he did. I’m much more on the other side of the fence on most of the other stuff, and way over there on polygamy (but Ray has politely asked us to stay away from that here). As for prophets since him, I’m not really convinced they are any different from the rest of us – it is pretty clear that none of them have had the type of experience Joseph had, and that revelation (if any) comes to them the same way it comes to the rest of us – through the “whisperings of the Holy Ghost.” The difference seems to have a lot to do with who they are related to and who they know.
July 8, 2014 at 10:40 pm #284136Anonymous
GuestTo me the dark part of JS was the hiding and possible deceit to Emma. If polygamy was done in the open with everyone on board about the rules, maybe it could have worked. The business of who gets to marry who, was selfish, political and wrong. Hiding, lying, deceit is never from God. -
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